Ungroomed Black Diamond Question

[PAabe]

Often the case in the PA. Blue Mt's Challenge and Razor, Camelback's Cliffhanger, Montage's Smoke, Whitetail's sole non park double black.

Hunter often grooms Upper K27 and Claire's Way.

I really wish Blue would let Challenge bump up consistently and only groom Razor of the pair

Same goes for Montage, skidding down White Lightning is no fun if its icy (usually) but no bumps

One great thing about Roundtop id you can expect moguls on Gunbarrel, Ramrod, and Lafayette's Leap, icy as hell but at least bumps to hit to make it interesting.

Agree with the point, skidding down a whole wall of ice is no fun.

 

[Newpylong]

What so called double black diamond trail in the east is groomed? I think it would be impossible at Magic. They have done a great job of grooming Sorcerer and Talisman this year including last night which made the day! The bottom pitch of Talisman is quite steep. Those two are single black with no rock bands or small cliffs. I guess they use a winch cat.

Magic free grooms those.

 

[Newpylong]

I would go with Tight Line at Saddleback as already mentioned. That top pitch makes your a**hole pucker because you can't see it without looking over the edge. Lots of similarities to Gondi Line at SL. I think that top is steeper though albeit short.

Back when we used to regularly make snow on it, the Face T2B at Whaleback when groomed is pretty damn fun and very steep.

 

[kingslug]

Not a fan of Groomers but I have found some out west to be a bit unnerving. There is one I think under the Red dog chair at Squaw that is the steepest I have ever skied. Clairs at Hunter is good. If its a long one and has some variety, a steep groomer can be interesting.

 

[NYDB]

I don't mind a groom on steep trails especially before a significant snow. Frozen bumps sometimes need to be knocked down imo.

 

[Not Sure]

I really wish Blue would let Challenge bump up consistently and only groom Razor of the pair

Same goes for Montage, skidding down White Lightning is no fun if its icy (usually) but no bumps

One great thing about Roundtop id you can expect moguls on Gunbarrel, Ramrod, and Lafayette's Leap, icy as hell but at least bumps to hit to make it interesting.

Agree with the point, skidding down a whole wall of ice is no fun.

Blue gets tons of traffic, the freeze-thaw makes for some interesting surfaces.
As for difficulty it’s not challenging as it’s got a very symmetrical plane when groomed . I’ve seen them groom a side and let one side bump up. It’s a good way for a new skier to try out the bumps and bail if they get in trouble.
Early season is a good time to rip groomers .Tunkannock at Elk is great as snow gets better it’s a great bump run .

Bear creek Sasquatch is interesting, it has a double fall line and is very steep on the East upper section. I think it’s steeper than most black trails I’ve been on in New England. It would be nice if it was longer than 300’ . The lift pod setup makes it an effort to lap. I’ve seen people hike take 1/2 a run and hike back up to lap it . Tuckerman training lol.

Skiing a steep trail can be intimidating for new skiers . The biggest mistake I’ve seen people make is go backseat.

 

[kingslug]

46er at Gore..yard sale city. That is one steep drop in the middle.

 

[cdskier]

I hate groomed blacks/double blacks. I despise skidded turns...probably the only part of skiing that does nothing for me. When it is a groomer day I stick to the low-angle blues that I can get on edge and just rip effortlessly. Unless I get 9m radius Slalom skis for $1,000, and drastically improve my ability, I have zero desire to ski groomed steeps.

Personally I enjoy ripping down a steep groomer at times. As long as the ski area is large enough to have multiple steep blacks/double blacks, then I say groom some and leave some alone. Variety is good. Everyone likes different things. I think Sugarbush does a good job with this mix on their steeps that are capable of being groomed.

 

[raisingarizona]

If it’s rated a double black it probably shouldn’t ever see the likes of a snow cat.

That being said, there probably isn’t anything more dangerous than a steep, rock hard icy groomed fall line run.

 

[deadheadskier]

If it’s rated a double black it probably shouldn’t ever see the likes of a snow cat.

That being said, there probably isn’t anything more dangerous than a steep, rock hard icy groomed fall line run.

Agreed

A double black should have sections that are unable to be groomed. Basically the trail has to have some ledge involved or be a steep pitched tree run.

And yes, especially in the East it seems the major accidents or fatalities occur on icy groomers.

 

[raisingarizona]

Agreed

A double black should have sections that are unable to be groomed. Basically the trail has to have some ledge involved or be a steep pitched tree run.

And yes, especially in the East it seems the major accidents or fatalities occur on icy groomers.

Maybe ski runs need a rating system that is more like climbing. Give a groomed black a x or xx, xxxr?

 

[kingslug]

The worst thing I ever skied..well slid down , was a solid ice 44 at Hunter..zero ability to get a grip on it..should not have been open. It was a ribbon of solid ice.

 

[skibum636]

Someone posted on facebook that they were at Greek Peak lapping Hercules because it was groomed. The question in their post was - what is your favorite groomed double black diamond trail in the East?

When it gets groomed it is no longer a double black diamond! I also prefer the simple single black diamond designation like at Jay Peak and Cannon.

I feel bad for the guy that laps hercules thinking it’s a double black..

 

[Zand]

The worst thing I ever skied..well slid down , was a solid ice 44 at Hunter..zero ability to get a grip on it..should not have been open. It was a ribbon of solid ice.

I've skied Ripcord at Mt Snow with similar conditions. Should not have been open. One of the more terrifying runs I've ever taken.

 

[ss20]

I've skied Ripcord at Mt Snow with similar conditions. Should not have been open. One of the more terrifying runs I've ever taken.

Ripcord is severely underrated for it's steepness and challenge, IMO. Nasty steep. Similar if not maybe just a tad steeper than Lower Ovation at K. Less groomed and narrower though.

 

[Newpylong]

Ripcord is extremely steep (I think steeper than Lower O by a good margin), but 10 hop turns and you're down it.

 

[machski]

Loon has to be single Double Black (Ripsaw) and it is ALWAYS groomed!! Why they bothered to tag it a double if they always intended to groom it I have no idea. Doesn't seem any steeper than Angel Street from the top and it's wider than Angel (when they move enough snow skiers right with the cats. Still can't believe they use Lance towers on that trail).

 

[Tonyr]

Probably the steepest consistenly groomed trail in the US is the Cornice bowl at Mammoth. They have to groom it while being hooked up on a winch. The trail has a 35 to 37 degrees pitch they groom the run everyday.

 

[Hawk]

I see people saying that a groomed Run should not be called a double diamond. I say this, I have skied a groomed White Heat at Sunday River few times and it was death defying. It actually crossed my mind that if I slipped and fell, I might die.

 

[ne_skier]

What so called double black diamond trail in the east is groomed? I think it would be impossible at Magic. They have done a great job of grooming Sorcerer and Talisman this year including last night which made the day! The bottom pitch of Talisman is quite steep. Those two are single black with no rock bands or small cliffs. I guess they use a winch cat.

Talisman is probably the steepest trail at Magic that they can send a groomer down. The rest of them have obstacles (Cliffs, stumps, trees, old tower footings, etc) or are simply too steep and/or narrow that a lack of moguls would turn them into icy death chutes. If you're looking for some speed, go there in the morning, ski to the intersection with Bailout, make sure the coast is clear (that is important), and bomb down the left part of that drop-off, check your speed if needed on the runout. Had a little oopsie one time where both my skis ripped off after catching an edge, but it was on the runout so no problem there. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this may be where they do actual speed competitions annually (Tuck it)