Alterra Buys 15th Ski Resort: Snow Valley, CA

[thetrailboss]

I've heard in chairlift talk several folks say that "IKON is going away this year" or next year, or whatever. It isn't They make too much money off it. They are basically wallpapering the office of Aspen and Alterra with cash.

Why do I say that? Another acquisition. Additional evidence is the HUGE gondola project at Steamboat. Maybe Alterra shifts to an Alterra-resort-only pass to save sending revenue to non-owned partner resorts, but for the immediate timeframe I don't see the IKON changing. I do see that eventually it will shift to an Alterra-only product and I think they are in a good position to do that with all the pass data and analytics they obtain from the partner resorts. Seriously, I'd think that would be a huge issue if I was at Boyne or POWDR or wherever but everyone is still worried about Vail. "The enemy of my enemy" is not always my friend.

Alterra Buys Snow Valley, California

Alterra Mountain Company today announced the purchase of its 15th ski area, Snow Valley Mountain Resort in Southern California. Snow Valley operations will fold into nearby Big Bear Mountain Resort…

liftblog.com

 

[2planks2coasts]

I've never heard anyone say Ikon is going away. We'll probably see more situations like Crystal though, where Ikon is the limited access and greatly stratified product. If you want unlimited, you buy a resort specific season pass. This purchase is a big blow to Indy though. Sad.

 

[thetrailboss]

I've never heard anyone say Ikon is going away. We'll probably see more situations like Crystal though, where Ikon is the limited access and greatly stratified product. If you want unlimited, you buy a resort specific season pass. This purchase is a big blow to Indy though. Sad.

Re: people saying "it will go away". I think it is because I am in SLC and there are a lot of local IKON passholders making a very big impact on our skiing experience in terms of crowds and traffic. So I hear it on occasion from other locals who repeat this mantra.

And I completely agree with your sentiment as to unlimited access. That, too, is a recurrent theme I hear from LOCAL IKON passholders who buy the base. "It's not fair to me that I have to make a reservation", "it's not fair to me that I have to pay to park." When I hear that, usually at Alta or Brighton, I diplomatically repeat your message of "well, buy a season pass, you get what you pay for." Remember I am in the epicenter of cheapness and frugality. Utah folks are NOTORIOUSLY cheap when it comes to everything.

 

[cdskier]

I've never heard anyone say Ikon is going away. We'll probably see more situations like Crystal though, where Ikon is the limited access and greatly stratified product. If you want unlimited, you buy a resort specific season pass. This purchase is a big blow to Indy though. Sad.

I've never heard that either. And I don't really see it being a viable option unless Alterra buys a lot more resorts. There's some markets where the options would be way too limited with Alterra-owned mountains only on the pass. On the flip-side though it also wouldn't bother me as even with all the access I have on my pass I still use it 99% of the time at a single resort (Sugarbush).

 

[thetrailboss]

I've never heard that either. And I don't really see it being a viable option unless Alterra buys a lot more resorts. There's some markets where the options would be way too limited with Alterra-owned mountains only on the pass. On the flip-side though it also wouldn't bother me as even with all the access I have on my pass I still use it 99% of the time at a single resort (Sugarbush).

I believe that the ONLY Alterra-owned resorts, in the east, are: Tremblant, Stratton, Sugarbush. Am I right? If so, then I would say that certainly in the NE that they can't go it alone right NOW. But let's make this fun, since Alterra is still in acquisition mode, wants to buy something in the east. What do folks think it would be? I wonder if they would spring for the Vail NH properties if Vail decided to dump Crotched, Attitash, and Wildcat? That might change the dynamic.

I believe that Alterra WAS interested in Jay and may have been a bidder. The Receiver has not disclosed who the bidders were.

 

[crank]

Snow Valley is a smaller hill close to population centers of SoCal.

So maybe Alterra would be looking at Windham or something similar?

I've heard rumors that Boyne may take some mountains off Ikon and do their own pass. Hope not as we will likely stick with Ikon and we have used it at Sugarloaf and Sunday River and would like to use it at Big Sky.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I wish they would've bought the snowtime resorts instead of Vail...

 

[cdskier]

I believe that the ONLY Alterra-owned resorts, in the east, are: Tremblant, Stratton, Sugarbush. Am I right? If so, then I would say that certainly in the NE that they can't go it alone right NOW. But let's make this fun, since Alterra is still in acquisition mode, wants to buy something in the east. What do folks think it would be? I wonder if they would spring for the Vail NH properties if Vail decided to dump Crotched, Attitash, and Wildcat? That might change the dynamic.

I believe that Alterra WAS interested in Jay and may have been a bidder. The Receiver has not disclosed who the bidders were.

They also own Snowshoe (WV) and Blue (Ontario)...although I don't think either of those are really on the radar for most people in the northeast. Even Tremblant I'm not sure how much that really moves the needle on the value of a multi-mountain pass for most people.

 

[thetrailboss]

I wish they would've bought the snowtime resorts instead of Vail...

Remind me--where are those?

 

[thetrailboss]

They also own Snowshoe and Blue...although I don't think either of those are really on the radar for most people in the northeast. Even Tremblant I'm not sure how much that really moves the needle on the value of a multi-mountain pass for most people.

Ah, thanks. I did know about Blue, but it is in Ontario so I consider that more west. I had forgotten about Snowshoe. I agree, not enough YET to become their own pass product.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Remind me--where are those?

Southcentral PA Roundtop, Whitetail and Liberty

 

[thetrailboss]

I've heard rumors that Boyne may take some mountains off Ikon and do their own pass. Hope not as we will likely stick with Ikon and we have used it at Sugarloaf and Sunday River and would like to use it at Big Sky.

Of the "other" resort groups, Boyne has a pretty good portfolio to go that route. In fact, I see a lot of signals that they are heading that way. Sugarloaf is the ONLY Boyne Resort on the east coast that remains in the Mountain Collective. Sunday River and Loon already have their own SIGNIFICANT marketshares. Boyne offers a competitive east coast product (Loon/Sunday River/Sugarloaf/Pleasant) for the New England market. Obviously, they'd LOVE having something closer to NYC. Additionally, Boyne ALREADY was offering their own mutli-resort pass product before IKON. Finally, Boyne already actively encourages passholders to stay within Boyne through their revamped and generous rewards program (it works pretty well) and active crossmarketing. It makes sense.

I find it very interesting that Boyne does not (yet) have a Vermont property. If anything, it looks like they see their NH/ME resorts as a good alternative, perhaps with easier regulatory and tax environments (maybe not so much in ME). I'd be interested to see if they buy something in VT in the near future. Burke is on the market and, all sources tell me, is very close to being a done-deal.

Again, I find it interesting that non-Alterra owned resorts are not more skeptical about "opening up" their books, in some small part, to an obvious competitor who has 15 RESORTS.

I also foresee POWDR selling out to someone in the future. Maybe not all their resorts, but some.

 

[2planks2coasts]

I don't imagine you'll ever see much swapping of owned properties between Alterra and Vail. Partner swaps sure. Snowbasin and A-Basin, etc, etc. switching sides or going independent. That'll happen frequently. Once one of the cartels owns the mountain outright, they're likely a part of that cartel until a court order or massive corporate collapse (see ASC) occurs.

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't imagine you'll ever see much swapping of owned properties between Alterra and Vail. Partner swaps sure. Snowbasin and A-Basin, etc, etc. switching sides or going independent. That'll happen frequently. Once one of the cartels owns the mountain outright, they're likely a part of that cartel until a court order or massive corporate collapse (see ASC) occurs.

I figured. But if Vail gets overstretched, maybe they will have to dump something.....

 

[danimals]

It would be real nice if Alterra would expand down into the mid atlantic area. Vail has an absolute monopoly on PA skiing (8 resorts) and were super close to owning mountain creek as well per the storm skiing podcast. the closest competition is KSL with blue and camelback passes now accepted at both mountains.

 

[Edd]

I figured. But if Vail gets overstretched, maybe they will have to dump something.....

If they really have > $1B in cash, is that even close to happening? God, I wish they’d sell the NH areas.

 

[trackbiker]

It would be real nice if Alterra would expand down into the mid atlantic area. Vail has an absolute monopoly on PA skiing (8 resorts) and were super close to owning mountain creek as well per the storm skiing podcast. the closest competition is KSL with blue and camelback passes now accepted at both mountains.

Blue Mountain and Camelback passes are not interchangeable. One offers a 25% discount to the other resort.

 

[urungus]

Ah, thanks. I did know about Blue, but it is in Ontario so I consider that more west.

Huh ? 90% of Ontario, including Blue and all other major Ontario ski areas, is in Eastern time zone.

 

[abc]

Huh ? 90% of Ontario, including Blue and all other major Ontario ski areas, is in Eastern time zone.

For many living in New England, even Albany is “west”!

 

[thetrailboss]

For many living in New England, even Albany is “west”!

Exactly.