Obligations

[dbking]

Is a ski area obligated to keep as much open as possible at the end of a season? I bought a season pass. It seems that the ski area is breaking the deal by closing chairs and terrain that are in wonderful shape. It isn't just my ski area. This has been an industry norm forever. I suppose that there was nothing written when I bought my pass that said they would keep everything open that is reasonable. I'm not a lawyer but I think some of you folks are. Is there any legal ground to stand on with this issue?
We just got four feet of new snow and they are closing on Sunday. I'm sure you can feel my pain.

 

[St. Bear]

In my opinion, it depends on the company.

If it's a publically traded company, their obligation is to make as much profit for the shareholders as possible. If that means closing a few weeks early because they're not getting enough visits to justify staying open, so be it.

If it's a private company, their obligation is whatever the hell they want it to be. You're just going along for the ride.

Closing after 4' is pretty ridiculous, but besides writing a complaint what can you do?

 

[deadheadskier]

Is a ski area obligated to keep as much open as possible at the end of a season? I bought a season pass. It seems that the ski area is breaking the deal by closing chairs and terrain that are in wonderful shape. It isn't just my ski area. This has been an industry norm forever. I suppose that there was nothing written when I bought my pass that said they would keep everything open that is reasonable. I'm not a lawyer but I think some of you folks are. Is there any legal ground to stand on with this issue?
We just got four feet of new snow and they are closing on Sunday. I'm sure you can feel my pain.

we haven't had three feet of snow total in the Northeast since March 1st. Quitcha bitchin' :smash:

I would suggest you direct this question to Chris Nyberg's attention over on Kzone. :lol:

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Let me make this simple. 95% of ski areas don't make money after April 15. It is costly to operate the resort. The resort ends up in the red. They can't afford to keep going. They shut down.

There.

So the answer is, no. The resort's obligation is to operate a fiscally sound business so that you can enjoy skiing while they ARE open. If they do not operate a fiscally sound operation, they will go under, and then you'll be doing a lot more hiking.

 

[St. Bear]

we haven't had three feet of snow total in the Northeast since March 1st. Quitcha bitchin' :smash:

That's another good point. I have no sympathy for anybody in the Rockies, even if they only kept the mountain open for a month.

 

[wa-loaf]

Some places out west have to close due to their leases with the Forest Service. Animal migrations and what-not.

 

[skiadikt]

most western areas close in mid april regardless of snow on the hill. they're destination resorts without much of a local base to support them. in the east it's a different situation with most of the areas a reasonable drive from a huge population base so you do have a number trying to extend their season catering to the diehard skier. pres smith at killington thought it made sense to stay open until memorial weekend. out west areas like a-basin, snowbird, mammoth & w/b operate an extended spring season. but like bmm says for most part it doesn't make business sense. i would doubt at big sky they could enough fannies in the seats to make it financially viable.

 

[dbking]

Hey, I'm not bitching. And I don't need your sympathy... I have a 120" base to finish my ski season. I don't expect the ski area to stay open longer. I want to know if they should be obligated to keep terrain open when thay ARE open. BMM makes a fine point that they need to make money. That is the company's view. Is there another one?

 

[Rambo]

I have heard that Elk Mountain in PA, guarantees to be open a certain number of days each season to season's pass holders. I believe the number is 90 days. So when they go beyond the required 90 days they can close at their own discretion.

 

[thetrailboss]

Hey, I'm not bitching. And I don't need your sympathy... I have a 120" base to finish my ski season. I don't expect the ski area to stay open longer. I want to know if they should be obligated to keep terrain open when thay ARE open. BMM makes a fine point that they need to make money. That is the company's view. Is there another one?

The simple answer is no, the resort is a business and must be run as a business. Ski resorts almost always run out of skiers before they run out of snow. The decision to close is almost always a business decision.

With regards to legal basis for forcing the resort to open, I can't really comment or offer legal advice. There are too many variables and other factors to consider.

That said, if there was some explicit promise to stay open until Date X, and no qualification, then there may be some grounds for reacting. But NO resort does that: almost all ticket sales clearly state that there are no refunds for weather and that there are no guarantees.

Best thing to do is to vote with your dollars if you are not happy. Sorry to say that......

 

[billski]

I would expect the terms and conditions of contract for season passes apply. It would wholeheartedly expect those terms to have wiggle room factor, giving management to close at their discretion. Net-net is that I don't think anything is obliged. That, when dovetailed with the profit objective previously described will drive the decision.

 

[vcunning]

As much as it pains me to say this (I absolutely love spring skiing), as a passholder and vacation property owner, I would prefer my mountain make intelligent business decisions on when to close.

That being said, I'm hoping my mountain can plow down the massive show jumps on Inferno and have an "intelligent business decision" to spin a lift for a few more weekends after Easter.

I guess I want it both ways!

 

[dmc]

i think they should stay open all year..

 

[Grassi21]

i think they should stay open all year..

Hunter is now obliged to offer free bear sightings to all spring skiers. Just don't bring your picanic baskets...

 

[dmc]

Hunter is now obliged to offer free bear sightings to all spring skiers. Just don't bring your picanic baskets...

or leave your garbage out...

I'm so over the thought of a ski area needing to stay open for me... It's totally understandable that an area cut back to stay open at the end... I look around Hunter's closing days and remember mostly season pass holders skiing... and sure we paid.. But we paid months before...

 

[Glenn]

That is the company's view. Is there another one?

I can't really think of one. If you're spinning the lifts for a handful of people, you're not only cutting into the bottom line, you may be cutting into next year's operating budget.

Like V said, I'd like my home base to make smart choice. I'd rather see them close a bit early and save that money to blow a little extra snow in November.

 

[gmcunni]

as a season pass holder how would you feel if the mountain charged "extra" for lifts running after a certain date? Would you pay a premium to enjoy a few more days of spring skiing?

 

[Greg]

as a season pass holder how would you feel if the mountain charged "extra" for lifts running after a certain date? Would you pay a premium to enjoy a few more days of spring skiing?

I brought this exact topic up a few springs ago:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/18943-skiing-may-would-you-pay-premium.html

Responses were mixed.

 

[St. Bear]

as a season pass holder how would you feel if the mountain charged "extra" for lifts running after a certain date? Would you pay a premium to enjoy a few more days of spring skiing?

Now that's an interesting proposition. Lots of variables to consider (price, how much extra skiing would be achieved, quality of snow, etc.). Speaking for myself, I would definitely consider it (if something like that were possible in NJ).

 

[SIKSKIER]

Cannon

I have to give kudos to John Devivo at Cannon.If they sold 40 tickets each day last weekend I'd be surprized.I booted up late at 8:30 and there were only 5 other people in the lodge.The place was pretty deserted and the conditions are true "springlike".I'm sure they were losing money but since he made a commitment to stay open till 4-12 they are doing just that.Maybe it's because they committed to BODE-FEST this Saturday.I'm happy.