Mittersill Photos (September 2010)

[Puck it]

Stop with the damn Threecy stalking.. Like it or not he has the knowledge and makes informative posts.

Put him on ignore, don't read his posts, whatever..

No, are you a mod now!!! We get his point that he is upset about the cost and now he critizing how they are installing the lift. Let's just talk about the progress of the install and stop whining.

 

[bobbutts]

No, are you a mod now!!! We get his point that he is upset about the cost and now he critizing how they are installing the lift. Let's just talk about the progress of the install and stop whining.

The way I see it in this thread, threecy is relevant, you bring nothing.

With his knowledge comes his opinions, and he has done what the forum has asked in moving on from pushing it.

 

[Puck it]

The way I see it in this thread, threecy is relevant, you bring nothing.

With his knowledge comes his opinions, and he has done what the forum has asked in moving on from pushing it.

He is now questioning the use of the helo for the concrete install which is just adding to his opinion against the cost of the lift. I am sure they have reasons for using the helo to fly in concrete or they would have done it another way.

 

[bobbutts]

He is now questioning the use of the helo for the concrete install which is just adding to his opinion against the cost of the lift. I am sure they have reasons for using the helo to fly in concrete or they would have done it another way.

So what? I don't understand how teasing and stalking threecy accomplishes anything. I guess your hope is that he stops posting altogether? Since moderator DHS encourages this I guess it's what the board powers want.

 

[Puck it]

So what? I don't understand how teasing and stalking threecy accomplishes anything. I guess your hope is that he stops posting altogether? Since moderator DHS encourages this I guess it's what the board powers want.

I am not the only one tired of is rants on how Cannon is doing this lift right. Why can't I voice my opinion on his ideas? This has nothing to with the board powers. Where did that come from?

 

[EPB]

I am not the only one tired of is rants on how Cannon is doing this lift right. Why can't I voice my opinion on his ideas? This has nothing to with the board powers. Where did that come from?

I certainly am.... Anyone who sees that the government is less efficient than the open market would expect something like this to happen. Whop dee do. The government probably overspent on one of its projects and Threecy just happens to understand why this time.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I certainly am.... Anyone who sees that the government is less efficient than the open market would expect something like this to happen. Whop dee do. The government probably overspent on one of its projects and Threecy just happens to understand why this time.

I'm still waiting for his explanation as to why any privately owned mountain would ever install a new lift if the financial logic is that compelling.

 

[threecy]

It sounds like you can do a better then the experts. You should start your own lift company then. You would be rolling in the $$$$$$

I left the ski industry in a full time capacity three years ago because I could make more money elsewhere for a lot less hours. I still to an extent do some work in the lift consulting business.

I'm still waiting for his explanation as to why any privately owned mountain would ever install a new lift if the financial logic is that compelling.

I'm not sure if I ever saw your original question ("still?"), but if you look at the number of OEM installs, as well as OEMs in general (only 2 left), you'll see that very few New England areas have been investing in brand new lifts over the past decade.

 

[bigbob]

As a taxpayer in the state of NH, I would not support the state investing in a used double chair. How many used doubles are on the market that are not at least 30 years old? What would be the parts availability for a 30+ year old lift now or 10 years from now? I hate to bring this back up, but I still feel the right decision was made to buy new. They were limited to a double chair after the approval process was completed. Why did they not chose to rehab the lift that was in place? To far gone I would assume by looking at the pictures. Mad River Glen choose to spend more money rebuilding their single chair rather than installing a double.
As Dead Head Skier wrote,a $2.00 per resident cost, I am sure the state has many other areas in which to shave costs, both at the local level and at the county/state level.

 

[Black Phantom]

He is now questioning the use of the helo for the concrete install which is just adding to his opinion against the cost of the lift. I am sure they have reasons for using the helo to fly in concrete or they would have done it another way.

How did they get all of that concrete up to Wilmington?

 

[Puck it]

:flame:

How did they get all of that concrete up to Wilmington?

 

[threecy]

How many used doubles are on the market that are not at least 30 years old?

You're missing the actual makeup of a used lift...when you get down to it, most decent lifts that age actually have very few original components at this point - most will have had new drives, cables, grips, etc. installed over the years as routine maintenance. One example - Mt. Tom, in Massachusetts, had a lot of 4 double chairs when it closed that were very quickly purchased, whereas Brodie's lifts didn't move nearly as quickly. Most of Mt. Tom's lifts were 30 years old, but they had new DC drives, cables, etc. Pretty much the only original components were the chair frames, towers, and terminal structures - all of which are routinely sandblasted and either dipped or painted prior to reinstall.

What would be the parts availability for a 30+ year old lift now or 10 years from now?

Hall, CTEC, Borvig (Partek), Doppelmayr, Garventa, Von Roll, and Poma parts are all available from Doppelmayr CTEC or Poma (the only two OEMs of any size left in the US). Hypothetically, if the original Mittersill double was in usable shape (it wasn't), it would likely be supplied with some of the same parts the new Mittersill double will be supplied with.

Why did they not chose to rehab the lift that was in place? To far gone I would assume by looking at the pictures.

Absolutely...that thing had been rotting away for a quarter of a century - no maintenance, no upgrades, etc. Surprisingly, some components are still in good shape (the sheaves I saw were spotless), but in general, the best case scenario for that lift for years was scrap.

Mad River Glen choose to spend more money rebuilding their single chair rather than installing a double.

That was a privately funded decision that had more to do with image and tradition than frugality. Regardless, the single chair full custom rebuild, in part due to better planning by those funding it, was significantly less expensive than the Mittersill project, despite covering a lot more vertical, etc.


On a separate but related note, I talked to someone from the Mittersill complex who confirmed additional blasting has been done on one of the lift served Mittersill trails (not sure which one, but not the same as the work done near the saddle as pictured a few weeks ago) to get rid of a double fall line, which should help it retain natural snow a bit better.

 

[Newpylong]

Did someone actually buy parts from Brodie? The only thing missing so far is chairs and the haul rope from Gramp's... those lifts were garbage for sure.

 

[threecy]

Did someone actually buy parts from Brodie? The only thing missing so far is chairs and the haul rope from Gramp's... those lifts were garbage for sure.

I haven't kept track of them, so I'm not sure what the status is. If I'm not mistaken, the Borvigs there were direct inserts/poured, which means anyone wanting the lifts would have to cut the towers at the footing (as compared to towers bolted to the footing as seen with most lifts). Also if I'm not mistaken, their newest double was a Stadeli...I'm not familiar with those lifts (they're increasingly rare in New England), or the parts availability (Waterville seems to keep theirs in working order though).

 

[deadheadskier]

You're missing the actual makeup of a used lift...when you get down to it, most decent lifts that age actually have very few original components at this point - most will have had new drives, cables, grips, etc. installed over the years as routine maintenance. One example - Mt. Tom, in Massachusetts, had a lot of 4 double chairs when it closed that were very quickly purchased, whereas Brodie's lifts didn't move nearly as quickly. Most of Mt. Tom's lifts were 30 years old, but they had new DC drives, cables, etc. Pretty much the only original components were the chair frames, towers, and terminal structures - all of which are routinely sandblasted and either dipped or painted prior to reinstall.


Hall, CTEC, Borvig (Partek), Doppelmayr, Garventa, Von Roll, and Poma parts are all available from Doppelmayr CTEC or Poma (the only two OEMs of any size left in the US). Hypothetically, if the original Mittersill double was in usable shape (it wasn't), it would likely be supplied with some of the same parts the new Mittersill double will be supplied with.



Absolutely...that thing had been rotting away for a quarter of a century - no maintenance, no upgrades, etc. Surprisingly, some components are still in good shape (the sheaves I saw were spotless), but in general, the best case scenario for that lift for years was scrap.


That was a privately funded decision that had more to do with image and tradition than frugality. Regardless, the single chair full custom rebuild, in part due to better planning by those funding it, was significantly less expensive than the Mittersill project, despite covering a lot more vertical, etc.


On a separate but related note, I talked to someone from the Mittersill complex who confirmed additional blasting has been done on one of the lift served Mittersill trails (not sure which one, but not the same as the work done near the saddle as pictured a few weeks ago) to get rid of a double fall line, which should help it retain natural snow a bit better.

One thing I'll give you threecy, you very well might be the most knowledgeable AZ member in regards to costs associated with ski area development and operations. There are a few other folks I can think of that might be as experienced as you are, but you know far more than 99% of the members here due to your work experience.

In the world of internet messageboards, we are ALL armchair quarterbacks critiquing every move in the industry. It's the skier / rider passion. We do so because we all want the best possible experience at the best possible value to pursue our passion.

My knowledge of the ski business is limited to F&B management rolls, though I was privy to P&Ls and involved in overall operational decisions at a couple of resorts. Truthfully during meetings going over those financials, my attention span was minimal. My mind was typically preoccupied with whether or not such and such skibum I employed got up in time for work after a night out boozing, to serve breakfast in the lodge that morning.

Ultimately though, what you continue to push and what continues to draw ire from several members here is what can be described as nothing less than an entirely over zealous attack towards Cannon Mountain and the Mittersill development. The development and potential future mismangment is what? A $20 hit to your wallet as a tax payer? The current development is approximately $2 out of your pocket as is and that's assuming zero offset from usage fees.

Think about it. $2

$2?????

I gave my waiter last night $10 more as a tip than I normally would because he was pretty darn good. The next night I go out to eat, I might give $10 less to a particularly shitty waiter.

Honestly, your attack on Cannon and the Mittersill project is like Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin or Bill Maher or Glen Beck. There's some merit and value to your opinion, but god damn man. It's $2. Chill out.

I really don't understand for one minute why anyone would attack how Cannon / State of NH is going after this project, the way you are. Unless you personally got totally F&CKED by the State of NH in some other way to lead you to throw the State and Cannon under the bus like you do every chance you get, it makes no sense to me.

Why does the $2 matter to you so much? Truthfully. We know where you stand on the issues. Let's try and keep politicis out of this if we can, but why are you so darn pissed off about $2.

 

[threecy]

A $20 hit to your wallet as a tax payer? The current development is approximately $2 out of your pocket as is and that's assuming zero offset from usage fees.

Think about it. $2

Honestly, your attack on Cannon and the Mittersill project is like Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin or Bill Maher or Glen Beck. There's some merit and value to your opinion, but god damn man. It's $2. Chill out.

I thought politics, especially national political figures, were supposed to be kept out of discussion in these forums.

If we went through life disregarding government expenditures that only amount to $2 (your calculation, not mine) to our pockets, we'd end up perhaps in worst fiscal shape than we are already in. The state is projecting hundreds of millions of dollars in deficit next fiscal year - every million counts. The overall Mittersill project, beside the lift, is running $3-$4 million this fiscal year.

I really don't understand for one minute why anyone would attack how Cannon / State of NH is going after this project, the way you are. Unless you personally got totally F&CKED by the State of NH in some other way to lead you to throw the State and Cannon under the bus like you do every chance you get, it makes no sense to me.

Why does the $2 matter to you so much? Truthfully. We know where you stand on the issues. Let's try and keep politicis out of this if we can, but why are you so darn pissed off about $2.

Some are reading my posts as continued attacks on Cannon/State of NH. Others are absorbing information and learning from it. If not for folks in the latter group, there would be no point in challenging the status quo on these forums.

 

[deadheadskier]

I thought politics, especially national political figures, were supposed to be kept out of discussion in these forums.

If we went through life disregarding government expenditures that only amount to $2 (your calculation, not mine) to our pockets, we'd end up perhaps in worst fiscal shape than we are already in. The state is projecting hundreds of millions of dollars in deficit next fiscal year - every million counts. The overall Mittersill project, beside the lift, is running $3-$4 million this fiscal year.



Some are reading my posts as continued attacks on Cannon/State of NH. Others are absorbing information and learning from it. If not for folks in the latter group, there would be no point in challenging the status quo on these forums.

Still don't understand why you are so obsessed............

unless the obsession is not so much with Cannon / State of NH itself as it is in prooving to us all that you have all the answers.

I find the discussion very similar to Highwaystars inquiry on the most powerful snowmaking system.

 

[threecy]

Still don't understand why you are so obsessed............

Because I'm participating in a thread about one of the biggest happenings in the New Hampshire ski industry right now (there may be big news released soon that may displace this in the forefront for a bit, though).

 

[Newpylong]

I haven't kept track of them, so I'm not sure what the status is. If I'm not mistaken, the Borvigs there were direct inserts/poured, which means anyone wanting the lifts would have to cut the towers at the footing (as compared to towers bolted to the footing as seen with most lifts). Also if I'm not mistaken, their newest double was a Stadeli...I'm not familiar with those lifts (they're increasingly rare in New England), or the parts availability (Waterville seems to keep theirs in working order though).

yup. Andy's (the newest lift) - is the one that is in the middle and goes 3/4 of the way up. That one and the one to it's left (Gramps) looking up are Stadeli's. Matt's (the beginner lift) and Dot's (the summit lift) are both Borvig. I believe I read that they may keep Andy's for future use. All of the rest of the lift's are in various states of pilfering.

 

[Smellytele]

Any more Mittersill photos? After all that is what this thread is titled.