Keep Killington Open Longer

[oakapple]

Superstar, Ovation, Downdraft, Skyelark (except for the course) all flat. Escapade had seen a groomer recently.

This is a completely different issue than keeping Bear Mountain open. Grooming costs money, which means that if K management were as bottom-line-driven as people say, the groomers would have stayed in the garage, except for trails like Great Northern that are groomed all the time.

 

[mondeo]

This is a completely different issue than keeping Bear Mountain open. Grooming costs money, which means that if K management were as bottom-line-driven as people say, the groomers would have stayed in the garage, except for trails like Great Northern that are groomed all the time.

Some people say they're bottom line driven. I just think they don't have a clue what their season pass holders want, and don't care because they just assume it's captured business. Every passholder I know is pissed off at K's management right now.

 

[khjr]

Where exactly is the "contract" that you are claiming they violated? Your season's pass agreement does not commit them to adhere to any particular opening or closing dates, much less to keeping particular trail pods open.

It is indeed an implied contract based, but such contracts nonetheless carry legal force. They rely on a “meeting of the minds” occurring between buyer and seller and are frequently upheld in court on evidence of “reasonable expectations.”

A reasonable person would expect that, when a resort promises use of their facilities for a season via a product called the “season pass,” it will allow the buyer to avail themselves of those facilities for the season.

Killington effectively closed half of the mountain facilities on April 4th. The Killington website indicates that pro-rated refunds (for injuries etc.) of season passes are calculated against an end of season date of April 15th. Wouldn’t a reasonable person expect for Killington to make best efforts to maintain the resort fully open at least through April 15th, weather conditions permitting?

Granted, Killington could challenge the above conclusions by saying that “season means whatever they want it to,” and that “open can mean half-open or less, depending on what is most profitable for them.” That would certainly change a future buyer’s perception of the pass' value, wouldn’t it?

 

[RootDKJ]

It is indeed an implied contract based, but such contracts nonetheless carry legal force. They rely on a “meeting of the minds” occurring between buyer and seller and are frequently upheld in court on evidence of “reasonable expectations.”

A reasonable person would expect that, when a resort promises use of their facilities for a season via a product called the “season pass,” it will allow the buyer to avail themselves of those facilities for the season.

Killington effectively closed half of the mountain facilities on April 4th. The Killington website indicates that pro-rated refunds (for injuries etc.) of season passes are calculated against an end of season date of April 15th. Wouldn’t a reasonable person expect for Killington to make best efforts to maintain the resort fully open at least through April 15th, weather conditions permitting?

Granted, Killington could challenge the above conclusions by saying that “season means whatever they want it to,” and that “open can mean half-open or less, depending on what is most profitable for them.” That would certainly change a future buyer’s perception of the pass' value, wouldn’t it?

Be happy that they don't close when the "season" changes from Winter to Spring.

 

[khjr]

Be happy that they don't close when the "season" changes from Winter to Spring.

Too Funny - That's exactly what I'm afraid of !!!

It’s been my experience that most companies are obsessed with current year financials. Management of long term customer loyalty is discussed, but ultimately doesn’t drive the decision-making because it’s so difficult to quantify in a business case.

Without a legal threat, there's little incentive for POWDR to make decisions on the basis of anything other than purely short-term financial considerations.

 

[andyzee]

I heard that for next year lift operations will be taken care of remotely from India.

 

[dmc]

I heard that for next year lift operations will be taken care of remotely from India.

Hello this is Chandler - how may i help you

 

[frankm938]

I'm officially to the point where, if almost all if my skiing friends weren't K skiers, I'd move to Sugarbush next season.

ya but dont they open later and close sooner?

 

[Black Phantom]

ya but dont they open later and close sooner?

Depends on the year. And the temps for the next couple of weeks.

 

[mediamogul]

This is a completely different issue than keeping Bear Mountain open. Grooming costs money, which means that if K management were as bottom-line-driven as people say, the groomers would have stayed in the garage, except for trails like Great Northern that are groomed all the time.

It's not quite that simple. Midweek grooming definitely gets scaled back. On the weekend the costs of grooming are weighed against the profits of increased skier traffic. It's more economically beneficial to maintain groomed trails to cater to the demographic of weekend skiers who generally desire a more manicured product. They do not want to alienate these folks but simultaneously are alienating the die-hards (many of whom are passholders) who would like more of a balance between groomed and ungroomed/moguls.

I think their current grooming strategies, which I would term as aggressive, are perfectly in line with the business plan of attracting upscale skiers who desire a "pleasant" experience on the hill.

 

[mondeo]

ya but dont they open later and close sooner?

Open later, yes, but close at the same time or later. Plus I get the impression that they don't jerk their passholders around as much, which is more of what I'm going for. I'm hating the fact that I'm going to be handing POWDR a good chunk of money in the next couple weeks, just on principle.

 

[mondeo]

I think their current grooming strategies, which I would term as aggressive, are perfectly in line with the business plan of attracting upscale skiers who desire a "pleasant" experience on the hill.

Except they're taking little Johnny to baseball practice at this point. Spring skiing = bumps. The balance has shifted at this point in the season.

 

[oakapple]

It is indeed an implied contract based, but such contracts nonetheless carry legal force. They rely on a “meeting of the minds” occurring between buyer and seller and are frequently upheld in court on evidence of “reasonable expectations.”

A reasonable person would expect that, when a resort promises use of their facilities for a season via a product called the “season pass,” it will allow the buyer to avail themselves of those facilities for the season.

Killington effectively closed half of the mountain facilities on April 4th. The Killington website indicates that pro-rated refunds (for injuries etc.) of season passes are calculated against an end of season date of April 15th. Wouldn’t a reasonable person expect for Killington to make best efforts to maintain the resort fully open at least through April 15th, weather conditions permitting?

They didn't close anywhere near half of the facilities on April 4th. Even today, far more than half their terrain is open.

Anyone buying a season's pass is presumably an experienced skier, who would know that most ski areas curtail the amount of open terrain near the end of the season. Killington might not have done that when Preston Smith was there, but that was far too many years ago to be relevant.

Did Killington last year keep 100 percent of their usable terrain open until closing day? Did they do so two years ago?

 

[mediamogul]

Except they're taking little Johnny to baseball practice at this point. Spring skiing = bumps. The balance has shifted at this point in the season.

Absolutely but they have continued with the aggressive grooming in spite of this fact. The Canyon was flat this weekend. They should be appealing to the bumpers at this point. Instead they are effectively alienating EVERYONE. This seems to be the outcome of 90% of POWDR's policies.

 

[WWF-VT]

Killington threads deliver !

People bitch when they don't open in October and whine even louder when they scale back operations in April.

 

[2knees]

baseball hasnt started yet. it aint johnny's fault.

 

[skime]

baseball hasnt started yet. it aint johnny's fault.

weren't you sitting on the bear deck weekend of 4/2?

 

[mondeo]

They didn't close anywhere near half of the facilities on April 4th. Even today, far more than half their terrain is open.

Anyone buying a season's pass is presumably an experienced skier, who would know that most ski areas curtail the amount of open terrain near the end of the season. Killington might not have done that when Preston Smith was there, but that was far too many years ago to be relevant.

Did Killington last year keep 100 percent of their usable terrain open until closing day? Did they do so two years ago?

Last year was warm, they pretty much closed areas as they became unskiable. And then they closed earlier than their announced date with good coverage on Superstar. Check back a year and see what people were saying then; POWDR has a history of making people mad.

baseball hasnt started yet. it aint johnny's fault.

In NYS, spring sports start practice on March 1st in high schools. Maybe it's not Little Johnny, but Medium Johnny is busy.

 

[2knees]

weren't you sitting on the bear deck weekend of 4/2?

I was there for a bit. talked to Jack for a while on sunday. You met him at sundown last year.

 

[jimmywilson69]

baseball hasnt started yet. it aint johnny's fault.

My 10 year old has his first baseball game of the year tonight and has been practicing for over a month. Granted I'm 7 hours south...