Killington - Expert trails CLOSED, with NO Snowmaking....

[millerm277]

Deleting the Devils Fiddle quad also counts as shrinkage.

I'd give them a pass on that one. It was useless since the demise of the Northeast Passage, and they upgraded the Skye Peak Quad to a HS at the same time, which makes it "even" in my mind.

 

[oakapple]

Deleting the Devils Fiddle quad also counts as shrinkage.

I was never there when the DFQ was open, but it served no unique terrain, so the only effect of its deletion is a slightly longer line at the Bear Mountain Quad, which usually doesn't have much of a line anyway.

The loss of the third stage of Skyeship (which originally went to the Peak) is far more annoying, as without it you have to travel quite some distance to get back to the base of the K1.

Nyberg's response on the Alpine Zone Challenge suggests that there are no plans to even consider a second route to the summit, which a resort Killington's size really should have.

 

[Highway Star]

A very significant portion of variable (ie through the window) sales are made Christmas Week, Martin Luther King Weekend, and President's Week.

Two of those three revenue centers have come and passed without banner snowfall or crowds. The final one is 10 days away.

President's Week will need some sort of snow event to make it a big money maker. So, we have a few possible outcomes:

- Killington dumps six figures into snowmaking, no snow event happens, numbers stay down.
- Killington dumps six figures into snowmaking, a snow event happens, the snowmaking probably ends up being an unnecessary expense.
or
- Killington cuts back snowmaking, no snow event happens, operating obligations are met.
- Killington cuts back snowmaking, a snow event happens, more trails open, and the crowds come.

The way this season is going, the latter may be the best decision. It would take one heck of a March to rebound if President's Week is a relative bust. That hypothetical one heck of a March would cover the trails in plenty of natural, so a big snowmaking expense now wouldn't be needed.

Wooooohoooooo!!!! Threecry is here with one of his classic Straw Man Arguements!!! Now it's really a Killington thread.

Let's take a moment to understand what a straw man is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Too bad you FAIL to recognize the two most reasonable and likely senarios, which do not involve straw men or other distortions.

- Killington blows snow, opens trails, creates hype, thus increasing skier visits and revenues. Like they have done in the past.

- Killington does jack squat and offers 70 trails of "refinished" AKA icy, dangerous, not fun, ice-gnar surface. No hype, no interest, internet backlash galore, and much reduced skier visits.....they lose vacation visits to Okemo or Sugarbush, etc.

Natural snowfall is irrelevant to this discusson. These trails need snowmaking regardless of natural snowfall. Killington was never supposed to be dependant on natural snow, especially for a holiday week, infact, quite the opposite.

If they have the current conditions for presidents day weekend, I think there will be seriously reduced skier visits and major damage to their brand when people actually see what they are offering for $86 a day.

 

[Highway Star]

I'd give them a pass on that one. It was useless since the demise of the Northeast Passage, and they upgraded the Skye Peak Quad to a HS at the same time, which makes it "even" in my mind.

I was never there when the DFQ was open, but it served no unique terrain, so the only effect of its deletion is a slightly longer line at the Bear Mountain Quad, which usually doesn't have much of a line anyway.

Actually, it is a shrinkage in that Bear used to be able to handle at least 1000 more skiers at one time, with full snowmaking and moguls on the fiddle and OL. Now we are down to 1/2 snowmaking on OL. Lame.

 

[oakapple]

Actually, it is a shrinkage in that Bear used to be able to handle at least 1000 more skiers at one time, with full snowmaking and moguls on the fiddle and OL. Now we are down to 1/2 snowmaking on OL. Lame.

Right, but you are confusing separate issues. They could make more snow at Bear without needing the Devil's Fiddle quad to handle the load. Even with the Fiddle open, the Bear Mountain Quad can handle the load.

 

[Highway Star]

Right, but you are confusing separate issues. They could make more snow at Bear without needing the Devil's Fiddle quad to handle the load. Even with the Fiddle open, the Bear Mountain Quad can handle the load.

You're missing the point. With the DF and more snowmaking, which they used to have, they had much more capcacity at bear. This has been massively reduced. The mountain has shrunk.

 

[oakapple]

You're missing the point. With the DF and more snowmaking, which they used to have, they had much more capcacity at bear. This has been massively reduced. The mountain has shrunk.

When the Bear trails were fully open, the DF Quad was still not needed. It was totally superfluous. The Bear trails could be restored to whatever you're thinking they used to be, and they wouldn't need that quad.

 

[threecy]

Natural snowfall is irrelevant to this discusson.

Pres Smith would laugh at that statement. When it's 50+ degrees in Boston/New York, and when there hasn't been significant new snow in Vermont, skier visits will suffer, even if Killington goes RTC between now and next Saturday.

 

[St. Bear]

FWIW, one of my friends is driving up to K from NJ this weekend with his girlfriend. He's exactly the casual skier that resorts are fighting over. He considered Okemo, but he's going to K because of its reputation and the apres scene.

 

[Highway Star]

Pres Smith would laugh at that statement. When it's 50+ degrees in Boston/New York, and when there hasn't been significant new snow in Vermont, skier visits will suffer, even if Killington goes RTC between now and next Saturday.

Put away your distortions and straw men. Pres Smith laughs at you.

Smith's and Killington's reputation was built on blowing snow as much as possible. Killington had mega visits even in bad snow years because the were the place for reliable snowmaking.

The new owners have lost that reputation, quickly, especially with rise of the internet. It doesn't take much to compare Killington's and Okemo's snow reports, and decide where to book your holiday weekend. Dig a little deeper, and you just may find some interesting info on facebook or internet forums.

http://www.okemo.com/okemowinter/ourmountain/snowreport.asp

Good morning Okemo skiers and riders. We are looking at sunny skies and temps in the low 30s with machine groomed and loose granular conditions. Currently the base temp is 9 degrees and 5 degrees on the summit.

Snowmaking resumed last night, adding additional coverage to Mountain Road, Sunset Strip, Quantum Leap, Vortex, and Wardance. Woohoo! Snow dance to that! Snowmaking will continue today on Quantum Leap, Vortex, and Wardance.

84 trails and 11 lifts will be open today for you, your family, and friends starting at 9 a.m. Upper Chief, Chute, and Lower Chief will be on hold for race training.

http://www.killington.com/winter/mountain/conditions

Forecasts are calling for more bluebird skies on Wednesday, and we will be soaking up the sunshine while cruising all the way down 3,050 vertical feet to the Skyeship base.

Killington’s world-class groomers will be taking to our 450+ acres on Tuesday night, so expect fresh corduroy on 60 trails. They plan to be renovating Caper, Upper Skyelark, Bear Claw, Lower Bittersweet, Bear Trax and Lower Skyeburst, which means a whole new snow surface for Wednesday.

SERIOUSLY?????

 

[St. Bear]

Put away your distortions and straw men. Pres Smith laughs at you.

Smith's and Killington's reputation was built on blowing snow as much as possible. Killington had mega visits even in bad snow years because the were the place for reliable snowmaking.

The new owners have lost that reputation, quickly, especially with the internet. It doesn't take much to compare Killington's and Okemo's snow reports, and decide where to book your holiday weekend. Dig a little deeper, and you just may find some interesting info on facebook or internet forums.

http://www.okemo.com/okemowinter/ourmountain/snowreport.asp


http://www.killington.com/winter/mountain/conditions



SERIOUSLY?????

I bet if you took a poll of people as they got on the K Gondola, 95% would say there is no difference between making snow on a trail and "renovating" a trail.

 

[Highway Star]

FWIW, one of my friends is driving up to K from NJ this weekend with his girlfriend. He's exactly the casual skier that resorts are fighting over. He considered Okemo, but he's going to K because of its reputation and the apres scene.

Exactly. And it's quite true that Killington still draws people specifically because of the scene, and perception of challenging terrain. When they find out that none of it is open....well......

 

[Highway Star]

I bet if you took a poll of people as they got on the K Gondola, 95% would say there is no difference between making snow on a trail and "renovating" a trail.

Its pretty slimy for them to say it the way they have been on the report. Clearly a distortion. But anyone paying attention knows they are simply tilling the trail with a groomer. lol.

 

[neil]

http://www.okemo.com/okemowinter/ourmountain/snowreport.asp



http://www.killington.com/winter/mountain/conditions



SERIOUSLY?????

They made snow at Wachusett last night on 5 trails. Fail by Killington.

 

[Black Phantom]

Opening the SkyeShip a half hour late is a real shame.

 

[Angus]

HighwayStar, I assume you will be taking your business elsewhere next year or are you a local? I skied Killington the day after New Years and the skiing was pretty miserable but it was due to not trying just weather - a couple days of rain followed by a hard freeze.

 

[kingslug]

I could go to K this Sunday for about 100.00 on a bus trip..I'm going to spend about 150.00 going to Hunter...that says a lot...and I've been to K twice on that same bus trip so far this year...meh.it..is..what it is...

 

[Ski the Moguls]

I bet if you took a poll of people as they got on the K Gondola, 95% would say there is no difference between making snow on a trail and "renovating" a trail.

I bet if you took that poll then 95% would say "what the heck is renovating a trail?"

 

[bobbutts]

How many of us here would recommend Killington for Feb Vacation next year if a family with kids asked? Does giving up in early feb in a snowless year affect that recommendation, for me, yes.

 

[Tin]

I could never figure out why so many loved Killington anyway, this just adds to my reasons to not visit.