Ski 3 - WF, Gore, Bell

[witch hobble]

When you call yourself "the Empire State", it shouldn't come as too much of a shock to the populace that there are authorities (corporate instruments of the state) and entities competing with private business or publicly traded companies. I mean what do you guys have over there? Thruways, canals, millions of acres of forest preserve, beaches, ports, parks, liquor, gambling. Skiing and snowboarding and lift tickets are small potatoes. Not telling you not to give a shit; I just don't here Mainers bashing vacationing, VTers bashing green mountains, Cters bashing the constitution, or New Hampshirites bashing the choice between living free or dying.

 

[dmc]

When you call yourself "the Empire State", it shouldn't come as too much of a shock to the populace that there are authorities (corporate instruments of the state) and entities competing with private business or publicly traded companies. I mean what do you guys have over there? Thruways, canals, millions of acres of forest preserve, beaches, ports, parks, liquor, gambling. Skiing and snowboarding and lift tickets are small potatoes. Not telling you not to give a shit; I just don't here Mainers bashing vacationing, VTers bashing green mountains, Cters bashing the constitution, or New Hampshirites bashing the choice between living free or dying.

Come to think of it.. Subsidizing a ski area that caters to mainly out of state people is something I don't like either..

And VT'rs bash out of staters just because of the color of their license plate..

 

[dmc]

Is there a number of free tickets that would be approved for Belleayre,(Plattekill) or Hunter?

As many as they want - assuming they are funding it themselves and not with my $...

 

[deadheadskier]

As many as they want - assuming they are funding it themselves and not with my $...

There are probably dozens of NY state parks operating in the red that are funded with your tax dollars. Should those be privatized too?

 

[dmc]

There are probably dozens of NY state parks operating in the red that are funded with your tax dollars. Should those be privatized too?

People need parks and green spaces... They do not need ski slopes or golf courses...

And I never said it needed to be privatized just financially operated better...

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't know, it just seems to me that with a state the size of NY, whatever losses Bell is incurring, it's probably such small change it probably is the equivalent of you personally losing a penny between the couch cushions, maybe even less than that.

It certainly wouldn't be anything I'd be upset over if I lived there. I wouldn't care about the BOGO's they give out either. Bigger problems in the world...

 

[dmc]

I don't know, it just seems to me that with a state the size of NY, whatever losses Bell is incurring, it's probably such small change it probably is the equivalent of you personally losing a penny between the couch cushions, maybe even less than that.

It certainly wouldn't be anything I'd be upset over if I lived there. I wouldn't care about the BOGO's they give out either. Bigger problems in the world...

You are right... There are bigger problems than skiing... that's for sure..
Like funding families from NJ while we lay off Police Officers and teachers...
And we're talking families that day trip - pack lunches and don't buy gas in NY.. No real $ flowing into the economy.. All the $ is spent at the ski area..

The thing about the BOGOs was they were distributed by the Chamber of Commerce to places where people that go to Plattekill and Belleayre skiers frequent... Plattekill can't afford to hand out a thousand BOGOs... Maybe Hunter and Windham can.. But Plattekill can't...

 

[oakapple]

@dmc and @BenedictGomez still haven't resolved the fundamental conflict.

They don't want the state in the ski business—but that's written into the state constitution and can't easily be changed.

Given that the state is by constitutional fiat in the ski business, they resent that it's actually run LIKE a ski business, and competes with other ski businesses.

They want it to be "fair," by some definition, but apparently Belleayre's competitors are the ones who get to decide what's fair. Yeah, right. I'm sure they'd be totally neutral about that.

@BenedictGomez said that Belleayre had "cut their throats," but they're all still in business, so I am still not sure where we go for a "fair" hearing of whether Belleayre is playing dirty pool, or just maximizing its assets, given the hand it has been dealt.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I don't know, it just seems to me that with a state the size of NY, whatever losses Bell is incurring, it's probably such small change

I'd like to know! Really, I'd like to know. This entire subject might be worthy of a FOIL request.

@dmc and @BenedictGomez still haven't resolved the fundamental conflict.

They don't want the state in the ski business—but that's written into the state constitution and can't easily be changed.

Given that the state is by constitutional fiat in the ski business, they resent that it's actually run LIKE a ski business, and competes with other ski businesses.

They want it to be "fair," by some definition, but apparently Belleayre's competitors are the ones who get to decide what's fair. Yeah, right. I'm sure they'd be totally neutral about that.

@BenedictGomez said that Belleayre had "cut their throats," but they're all still in business, so I am still not sure where we go for a "fair" hearing of whether Belleayre is playing dirty pool, or just maximizing its assets, given the hand it has been dealt.

I'd like to be respectful and such, but your comments demonstrate that you have a very thin grasp on business to begin with, but worse, you're clearly not even paying attention to what anyone in this thread is writing.

 

[deadheadskier]

You are right... There are bigger problems than skiing... that's for sure..
Like funding families from NJ while we lay off Police Officers and teachers...
And we're talking families that day trip - pack lunches and don't buy gas in NY.. No real $ flowing into the economy.. All the $ is spent at the ski area..

The thing about the BOGOs was they were distributed by the Chamber of Commerce to places where people that go to Plattekill and Belleayre skiers frequent... Plattekill can't afford to hand out a thousand BOGOs... Maybe Hunter and Windham can.. But Plattekill can't...

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at is the cost of skiing has become prohibitively expensive for new people to take up the sport. If the discounts encourage new participation, Hunter, Windham, Plattekill all benefit down the road by there being a larger customer pool. Some of those new skiers attracted by the BOGO's turn into season pass holders, second homers etc,. down the road and maybe once they catch the "ski bug" they opt for Hunter or Plattekill instead of Bell.

I think it's great that State Run Cannon in NH offers tremendous discounts to not only NH residents, but out of state skiers and riders as well. It's good for the sport. I don't hear skiers from other mountains in our region complain about those discounts.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Another way to look at is the cost of skiing has become prohibitively expensive for new people to take up the sport. If the discounts encourage new participation, Hunter, Windham, Plattekill all benefit down the road by there being a larger customer pool. Some of those new skiers attracted by the BOGO's turn into season pass holders, second homers etc,. down the road and maybe once they catch the "ski bug" they opt for Hunter or Plattekill instead of Bell.

Lets just give EVERYONE free tickets to every resort! The ski industry will be making money hand over fist in no time!

DHS, the above is fairy-tale economics. "Free" does not a business model make.

And a small player will be hurt more over the short-term than whatever benefit (which is highly debatable to begin with) would acrue over the long-term. Worst case? You may not even remain solvent if the free tickets are so profound.

 

[deadheadskier]

If you want to interject hyperbole by saying, "Free Skiing for All" go for it. These were BOGO's. Cannon offers them Tuesday through Thursday. I don't hear skiers at other mountains in our region bitch about it like Catskill area skiers bitch about Bell offering BOGO's.

But, hey, it's you all who losing pennies in New York's couch. In a bad financial season, Cannon might cost me a dollar of my tax money; I really don't care.

 

[BenedictGomez]

If you want to interject hyperbole by saying, "Free Skiing for All" go for it. These were BOGO's. Cannon offers them Tuesday through Thursday. I don't hear skiers at other mountains in our region bitch about it like Catskill area skiers bitch about Bell offering BOGO's.

You dont understand the magnitude of the situation. Yes, probably 3/4 of mountains offer BOGOs in one form or another.

But Belleayre was papering the market so heavily with BOGOs that you could use them to heat your home.

 

[Rambo]

you dont understand the magnitude of the situation. Yes, probably 3/4 of mountains offer bogos in one form or another.

But belleayre was papering the market so heavily with bogos that you could use them to heat your home.

At the beginning of the season when there were few trails open, Belleayre would print BOGO on the lift ticket and it could be redemed for a free ticket your next visit if it was before Dec. 17th. Also at the very end of the season their would be a BOGO on your lift ticket sometimes that needed to be used by Dec. 17th of the next season.

 

[dmc]

This is false, I think! At the beginning of the season when there were few trails open, Belleayre would print BOGO on the lift ticket and it could be redemed for a free ticket your next visit if it was before Dec. 17th. Also at the very end of the season their would be a BOGO on your lift ticket sometimes that needed to be used by Dec. 17th of the next season.

I'm not really talking about what's going on there now..

But in this instance 1000 BOGOs hit the area..
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2011/01/06/news/doc4d252349602d1366541341.txt

 

[dmc]

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at is the cost of skiing has become prohibitively expensive for new people to take up the sport.

I'm down... But not until there's some meat in the state budget...

 

[dmc]

If you want to interject hyperbole by saying, "Free Skiing for All" go for it. These were BOGO's. Cannon offers them Tuesday through Thursday. I don't hear skiers at other mountains in our region bitch about it like Catskill area skiers bitch about Bell offering BOGO's.

Again - this is all in the past - I have no idea what's up now...

But things are getting tough down here.. Seasons are shorter.. money is tighter..
I'll defend Plattekill whenever they need me to.. I dig what they are doing..

 

[Rambo]

I'm not really talking about what's going on there now..

But in this instance 1000 BOGOs hit the area..
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2011/01/06/news/doc4d252349602d1366541341.txt

Oh - I see now! Thanks for the info.

 

[ScottySkis]

I might ski Bell when my dad is their for handicap skiing hopefully by next winter.

 

[dmc]

I might ski Bell when my dad is their for handicap skiing hopefully by next winter.

I used to go there with my dad towards the end of his skiing life..