Smuggs

ceo · Feb 24, 2015

I know this is going to be a minority opinion here, but I really wish Smugglers Notch would invest in some modern lifts. Was up there with the kids for part of last weekend (ended up going home early for unrelated reasons), and really liked the family friendly aspect of the place, and the main-mountain terrain looked really nice. Would have been nice if I'd gotten a chance to ski more of it, but it was only possible to do three runs on Sterling and Madonna before I had to go pick my son up from ski school. And that's on a day with zero lines. I don't think I'm going back there with the kids until the older one is doing double blacks.

I know the old slow lifts help preserve the snowpack, but I think they've got the trail capacity to handle a high-speed quad on both mountains without everything getting skied off immediately.

deadheadskier · Feb 24, 2015

I'd be fine with a HSQ on Sterling or Madonna 2; not Madonna 1. I'd be fine with an upgrade to a fixed grip triple on Madonna 1, but nothing beyond that.

EPB · Feb 24, 2015

Yeah Sterling could definitely use a high speed lift. I haven't spent enough time in the Madonna 2 area to comment, but I don't doubt there's enough downhill capacity there to handle one too. Anything to keep people away from Madonna 1 would be appreciated. More laps off sterling would be great too.

dlague · Feb 24, 2015

I have been saying this for a couple years now. However, there are several on here who think that the trails would become scrapped off and have too much traffic and ruin the experience. What experience - waiting in line?

steamboat1 · Feb 24, 2015

They could really use a high speed lift on Morse. That's one long slow chairlift beginners have to deal with. I kind of remember hearing rumors that they did have plans to install a HSQ on Sterling.

C-Rex · Feb 24, 2015

I'd like to see a detachable quad on Sterling for sure. How about this? Replace Madonna 2 with a HSQ. For Madonna 1, re-design the mid station to have an unloading area followed by a loading area so that people could load onto a chair that was vacated. Then ensure easy access from Madonna 2 to 1. Then you'd have 2 routes to mid mountain and could quicken the route to the top by taking the quad half way. And by allowing people off at mid mountain you cut the numbers at the top.

bdfreetuna · Feb 24, 2015

Agreed with dlague .. last time I went to Smuggs was high school and I remember getting very few runs in. Crowds weren't even the issue.

To have Madonna summit served by a super slow double is really lame. Probably great for locals but not very inviting for visitors. It's like the MRG mentality .. "oh yeah we have all this amazing terrain.. if you're lucky you'll get a few runs on it"

Same reason I won't even bother with MRG on the weekends any longer (which means I'll almost never go there)

Having a slow uncomfortable double serve terrain makes sense on Castlerock because at least that's not the main mountain. The situation at Smuggler's is barely passable in this day and age. IMO it makes them look cheap as hell never to have replaced that lift, or else they have an attitude like MRG where it's a privilege to ski their terrain so be happy with whatever ride up you get.

The terrain at Smuggs that people fear will get skied off is challenging and intimidating enough that traffic should be self limiting -- just like at numerous other areas which have adequate uphill capacity serving difficult terrain.

ss20 · Feb 24, 2015

6-pack on Morse. HSQ on Sterling. Detachable double on M1 without increased capacity

xwhaler · Feb 24, 2015

C-Rex said:
I'd like to see a detachable quad on Sterling for sure. How about this? Replace Madonna 2 with a HSQ. For Madonna 1, re-design the mid station to have an unloading area followed by a loading area so that people could load onto a chair that was vacated. Then ensure easy access from Madonna 2 to 1. Then you'd have 2 routes to mid mountain and could quicken the route to the top by taking the quad half way. And by allowing people off at mid mountain you cut the numbers at the top.

I get the logic but don't think it would help anything. I never see a line on M2...if people who are riding M1 wanted to get off mid way they would just ride M2, but they don't. Everyone currently riding M1 is there to access the summit.
I doubt you would have many empty chairs beyond the mid station.

I am in favor of some type of faster/higher capacity lift on Sterling. There are multiple routes down off the top both blacks and blues and could handle the increased traffic more.
The top of M1 is basically Drifter and Chilicoot unless you are dropping right in to Liftline/Upper FIS which service a small market and aren't always open.
I don't think 2 blues, one of which Drifter and pretty flat to begin with would handle more crowds very well. Drifter is evry tough on a snowboard so you would almost force snowboarders down Chilicoot.

The issue of lift crowding is a problem though---I'll be at Smuggs either Sat or Sunday and I'm trying to figure out which day is better for me based on this very issue.
I love the mountain though and will tolerate some lines for awesome terrain/vibe/snow.

steamboat1 · Feb 24, 2015

Killington basically only has one trail off the top of the K-1 eight passenger gondola. I don't think Cat Walk or Downdraft/Cascade headwall see much traffic. Why wouldn't a HSQ work off M-1 with two intermediate trails off the summit, it works at Wildcat?

deadheadskier · Feb 24, 2015

It definitely doesn't work at Wildcat. Catapult and Lynx get skied off very quickly. Polecat to a lesser extent. They are in need of another Intermediate trail off the top at Wildcat. Plenty of space in between Lynx and Polecat, though I don't know if the topography works for a trail in there. I've said many times, I'd like for Wildcat to improve the lifts on the lower mountain to draw people away from the top.

Killington has many options to choose from that branch off that one trail within a few hundred yards. Many of those trails are also super wide and thus have a much greater carrying capacity. Drifter and Chillcoot would get absolutely hammered with much more capacity than exists from Madonna 1.

BenedictGomez · Feb 24, 2015

ceo said:
I know this is going to be a minority opinion here, but I really wish Smugglers Notch would invest in some modern lifts.

I'm totallyl onboard with this, but.....

ceo said:
Would have been nice if I'd gotten a chance to ski more of it, but it was only possible to do three runs on Sterling and Madonna before I had to go pick my son up from ski school. And that's on a day with zero lines.

Exaggerate much? Unless "ski school" was a 1 hour lesson, you must be the slowest skier this side of the Mississippi.

ceo said:
I know the old slow lifts help preserve the snowpack, but I think they've got the trail capacity to handle a high-speed quad on both mountains without everything getting skied off immediately.

I'm all for a quad on Sterling. There's no reason not to have one, and if they did, it would help alleviate the M1 problem on Saturdays a bit, becuase for reasons I have never understood, HSQ attract skiers like light attracts insects.

FWIW, the "slow lifts are necessary to preserve snow" thing has been repeated probably since before I was born, to the point enough people believe it. I don't.

dlague said:
I have been saying this for a couple years now. However, there are several on here who think that the trails would become scrapped off and have too much traffic and ruin the experience. What experience - waiting in line?

It's nonsense. Drifter, Chilcoot, and Catwalk are just as much intermediate terrain as other mountains have close to the summit, and they all seem to survive with HSQ.

EDIT: And if anyone's reading this, know that Canuck school break is the next two weekends. It's my opinion that you should avoid Smuggs & Jay peak at very least on the next two Saturdays.

JamaicaMan · Feb 24, 2015

Oh, and y'all have $6 million to contribute to build your HSQ lift there, too? Because that'll pay for itself in no time.

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

BenedictGomez · Feb 24, 2015

deadheadskier said:
Drifter and Chillcoot would get absolutely hammered with much more capacity than exists from Madonna 1.

Drifter and Chilcoot are always in great shape. So even if you double the capacity, I don't see how you go from "great" to "absolutely hammered" in one quick step.

Now, perhaps if Drifter and Chilcott even now are fairly scraped off and icy with current capacity, then I would agree with you that doubling capacity would be horrendous, but that's not the current case.

bdfreetuna · Feb 24, 2015

JamaicaMan said:
Oh, and y'all have $6 million to contribute to build your HSQ lift there, too? Because that'll pay for itself in no time.

Smuggs has had more than 50 years to save up for a new lift.

deadheadskier · Feb 24, 2015

I disagree. Both tend to be an icy mess whenever I've skied there on weekends. You put three times the amount of traffic on those two trails, which is what a HSQ would do and do the math. Not good.

therobertcollins · Feb 24, 2015

May be a tad off topic, but.... I'm heading up there tomorrow and I was wondering if anyone could PM me with good spots to ski, on map or off, and where to find them. Thanks

MadMadWorld · Feb 24, 2015

BenedictGomez said:
Drifter and Chilcoot are always in great shape. So even if you double the capacity, I don't see how you go from "great" to "absolutely hammered" in one quick step.

Now, perhaps if Drifter and Chilcott even now are fairly scraped off and icy with current capacity, then I would agree with you that doubling capacity would be horrendous, but that's not the current case.

deadheadskier said:
I disagree. Both tend to be an icy mess whenever I've skied there on weekends. You put three times the amount of traffic on those two trails, which is what a HSQ would do and do the math. Not good.

Drifter is a shit show on a Saturday especially at the first turn. No way should there be a HSQ up there. I'm not even a huge fan of a HSQ on Sterling. My point is and always has been that they need to have a niche that is different than Stowe. Putting in an HSQ and improving snowmaking on Sterling (it would have to go hand and hand), would force Smuggs to increase ticket prices significantly. Smuggs has ALWAYS marketed themselves as a family friendly mountain (wallet friendly too) with as challenging terrain as Stowe.

I would be okay with a triple on Sterling or a HSQ on Madonna II but leave M1 alone for the love of everything that is holy!! How many times do we need to have this conversation??

MadMadWorld · Feb 24, 2015

therobertcollins said:
May be a tad off topic, but.... I'm heading up there tomorrow and I was wondering if anyone could PM me with good spots to ski, on map or off, and where to find them. Thanks

Depends what you like. It is a mountain that truly has a really nice balance of beginner, intermediate, and expert terrain that are broken into pods. Beginners start at Morse, move to entry level intermediate on M2, intermediate - advanced terrain on Sterling, and mostly expert terrain off of M1.

catsup948 · Feb 24, 2015

Leave M1, it services some of the best terrain in the east. Either M2 or Sterling would be prime candidates for a high speed lift. Both service a good amount of intermediate to advanced cruisers. People love lapping groomers.

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