2016/2017 Season Passes

[thetrailboss]

Not sure I understand where you're coming from by saying Sugarbush prices themselves on the upper end. Sure they are way above the Peaks pass and a lot of places outside of VT, but within VT they are more middle of the pack. Sugarbush's price this year is 1/3 less than Stowe's early rate last year. I expect they will be pretty close to K as well unless K does a price drop when they announce their new prices (last year they were a couple bucks cheaper than K). Do you consider K on the upper end as well?

In Southern VT Okemo is higher than Sugarbush (which is ridiculous and will be interesting to see how they are impacted by the Peaks pass). Everyone else in southern VT is cheaper than SB, but I think the terrain at SB alone justifies a slightly higher price.

Since Win took over in 2001, Sugarbush's pass prices were much higher than their northern competition and a bit ahead of Killington. I'm putting them up against MRG, Bolton, Stowe, Smuggs, Jay, etc. All the resorts north of Route 4. Those resorts, except Stowe, are priced lower than Sugarbush for an equivalent pass. Have been for a while. When we discussed this on SkiMRV or here the reasoning for the pricepoint was that Sugarbush wanted to offer a "quality product" and also sought to match themselves up with their ideal competitor, which is Stowe. They used that to charge a premium for full passes (and still do) when compared to other Northern Resorts.

Of course Sugarbush has offered the Mount Ellen only passes as a way to have a lower priced pass for locals. The last year I was there I got a Mount Ellen Plus Pass (LP access a certain number of days, preseason and postseason at LP) for like $649 or so. That's about the same, if not lower, than a lot of places in NVT.

 

[Zand]

After only having a Wachusett pass for the last 3 seasons since I graduated college and just getting the Fox44 cards for VT trips (and not getting anything this year), I was almost ready to buy a Killington pass for next year. Then I saw the new Peak season pass and I'm all over that one. Mt. Snow is an hour closer to me than Killington, plus my GF's parents neighbors have a condo in North Conway and have always been trying to get us to go up, so now I can take a few weekends at Attitash and Wildcat. I also have a friend from college that lives in Poughkeepsie so maybe I can pay him a visit and check out Hunter once or twice.

Thought about making Crotched my new home area since it's also on the pass but it's a full hour further than Wachusett and I'd literally have to drive right past Wachusett to get there. 35 minutes is a lot better of a ride for a home hill than 1:40 so I'll still get a bronze pass next year for nights and maybe check out Crotched once or twice. Definitely excited to have a decent hill like Mt. Snow 2 hours away on a pass though...wish I could go back to college and have Jay 45 minutes away but Mt. Snow has enough good stuff to keep me entertained.

 

[cdskier]

Since Win took over in 2001, Sugarbush's pass prices were much higher than their northern competition and a bit ahead of Killington. I'm putting them up against MRG, Bolton, Stowe, Smuggs, Jay, etc. All the resorts north of Route 4. Those resorts, except Stowe, are priced lower than Sugarbush for an equivalent pass. Have been for a while. When we discussed this on SkiMRV or here the reasoning for the pricepoint was that Sugarbush wanted to offer a "quality product" and also sought to match themselves up with their ideal competitor, which is Stowe. They used that to charge a premium for full passes (and still do) when compared to other Northern Resorts.

Of course Sugarbush has offered the Mount Ellen only passes as a way to have a lower priced pass for locals. The last year I was there I got a Mount Ellen Plus Pass (LP access a certain number of days, preseason and postseason at LP) for like $649 or so. That's about the same, if not lower, than a lot of places in NVT.

I think lumping K, SB, Stowe, MRG, Bolton, Smuggs, and Jay together is not really comparing apples to apples in all cases.

Last year SB was $20 cheaper than K. Stowe is way out there, but no one is disputing that.
Smuggs - out of the way for many people, no high speed lifts - both of these have to drive the price down to avoid losing skier visits to other areas
MRG - in a class of their own and can't really compare their operating model. In a lean snow year like this, their pass would result in a very high price per visit comparison (or price per open skiable terrain type of comparison).
Bolton - never been there so hard for me to compare, but they are already closed for the season whereas SB is still going strong and has potentially weeks to go in their season. This alone to me justifies a higher price for SB.

I would honestly say the direct competition to SB is both Stowe and K. Out of those 3, K and SB stay neck and neck with pricing and Stowe is way out in front. It is difficult for me to put the others in the same grouping for various reasons.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would agree. Sugarbush competition is Stowe and Killington. Chittenden county is a really small market that I see Smuggs and Bolton being the primary players for. Jay is more Montreal. Sugarbush is Boston, CT, NY just like Stowe with a bit less of a Canadian presence.

One thing is for certain, the fact that Stowe's price is as high as it is does enable Sugarbush to probably charge at least $200 extra. In fact, I'm surprised Sugarbush doesn't charge even more than what they do because Stowe's price makes Sugarbush look like a huge bargain. I definitely prefer Stowe to Sugarbush, but not enough to pay that extra premium in pass price if I was picking between the two for a home hill.

 

[Jully]

Ragged season passes $249 before April 15.


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Now that's an extremely interesting deal.

 

[WWF-VT]

I would agree. Sugarbush competition is Stowe and Killington. Chittenden county is a really small market that I see Smuggs and Bolton being the primary players for. Jay is more Montreal. Sugarbush is Boston, CT, NY just like Stowe with a bit less of a Canadian presence.

One thing is for certain, the fact that Stowe's price is as high as it is does enable Sugarbush to probably charge at least $200 extra. In fact, I'm surprised Sugarbush doesn't charge even more than what they do because Stowe's price makes Sugarbush look like a huge bargain. I definitely prefer Stowe to Sugarbush, but not enough to pay that extra premium in pass price if I was picking between the two for a home hill.

Sugarbush offers the most "family friendly" pricing by including a free 12 and under kid pass with the purchase of any Adult 7 pass as well as low cost Youth passes for ages 7-18.

 

[prsboogie]

Thought about making Crotched my new home area since it's also on the pass but it's a full hour further than Wachusett and I'd literally have to drive right past Wachusett to get there. 35 minutes is a lot better of a ride for a home hill than 1:40 so I'll still get a bronze pass next year for nights and maybe check out Crotched once or twice..

Crotched isn't big (compairable to Wawa though) and I understand the appeal of the shorter ride but IMHO Crotched offers a better option when you take all into account. Better trail layout, equal snowmaking and Hellava lot shorter lines even on busy Saturdays.

 

[yeggous]

Crotched isn't big (compairable to Wawa though) and I understand the appeal of the shorter ride but IMHO Crotched offers a better option when you take all into account. Better trail layout, equal snowmaking and Hellava lot shorter lines even on busy Saturdays.

Crotched compared to WaWa? Here's my take...

Crotched advantages:

1) Much better snowmaking. 100% fan gun and they resurface frequently. In my experience they have the most reliable snow surfaces in New England. Period.

2) No lift lines. Read that again if you're a WaWa skier. No lift lines!

3) Weekend hours until 3am. You can get a full ski day after work on Friday.

4) Glades. WaWa has none, the Crotch has decent glades.

5) The Crotch has sustained pitch. WaWa is pretty flat and what little pitch exists is broken up by the road and flattens out at the bottom.

6) Rocket Fuel IPA at the bar. That's decent beer, and their bar prices are more reasonable.

7) Grooming. WaWa will unapologetically groom out powder. On a pow day the Crotch will typically groom out one groomer track wide on each trail for lesser skiers, and won't touch the rest. After work I can still catch freshies at the Crotch. WaWa will have groomed it out.

8) Less school groups.

WaWa advantages:

1) Location. The roads to the Crotch suck. WaWa is very easy to get to.

2) Sunday night skiing at WaWa is something the Crotch lacks.

3) The demo ski selection at WaWa is excellent. You can run the rack.

4) Cider donuts. Yes, I'm serious. Their cider shack is tight.

Even advantage:

1) Season passes. Max Pass vs Peaks Pass is a draw.

2) Vertical is very similar.

3) Lifts are both fast.

 

[cdskier]

Sugarbush offers the most "family friendly" pricing by including a free 12 and under kid pass with the purchase of any Adult 7 pass as well as low cost Youth passes for ages 7-18.

I was thinking about mentioning that as well but wasn't familiar enough with whether other resorts offered anything similar.

SB's pass for people in their 20s is also one of the cheapest around.

 

[Jcb890]

Crotched compared to WaWa? Here's my take...

Crotched advantages:

1) Much better snowmaking. 100% fan gun and they resurface frequently. In my experience they have the most reliable snow surfaces in New England. Period.

2) No lift lines. Read that again if you're a WaWa skier. No lift lines!

3) Weekend hours until 3am. You can get a full ski day after work on Friday.

4) Glades. WaWa has none, the Crotch has decent glades.

5) The Crotch has sustained pitch. WaWa is pretty flat and what little pitch exists is broken up by the road and flattens out at the bottom.

6) Rocket Fuel IPA at the bar. That's decent beer, and their bar prices are more reasonable.

7) Grooming. WaWa will unapologetically groom out powder. On a pow day the Crotch will typically groom out one groomer track wide on each trail for lesser skiers, and won't touch the rest. After work I can still catch freshies at the Crotch. WaWa will have groomed it out.

8) Less school groups.

WaWa advantages:

1) Location. The roads to the Crotch suck. WaWa is very easy to get to.

2) Sunday night skiing at WaWa is something the Crotch lacks.

3) The demo ski selection at WaWa is excellent. You can run the rack.

4) Cider donuts. Yes, I'm serious. Their cider shack is tight.

Even advantage:

1) Season passes. Max Pass vs Peaks Pass is a draw.

2) Vertical is very similar.

3) Lifts are both fast.

That review really makes me want to give Crotched a shot. The only problem to me is that Wachusett is 35 mins away vs. an hour and 35 for Crotched. We went to Wachusett about 15 times this year I believe. Snow conditions were really bad on maybe 4 of those days. 1 day of powder, 1 day of nice soft stuff from a fresh snow and the rest was just consistent, but pretty good snow.

The being open until 3am on weekends is amazing and I like the idea of more consistent snow coverage and snow conditions.

 

[yeggous]

That review really makes me want to give Crotched a shot. The only problem to me is that Wachusett is 35 mins away vs. an hour and 35 for Crotched. We went to Wachusett about 15 times this year I believe. Snow conditions were really bad on maybe 4 of those days. 1 day of powder, 1 day of nice soft stuff from a fresh snow and the rest was just consistent, but pretty good snow.

The being open until 3am on weekends is amazing and I like the idea of more consistent snow coverage and snow conditions.

I have been a pass holder at both places. From home my drive is 45 minutes to WaWa and 1:05 to the Crotch. From work my drive is more like 1 hour to WaWa and at least 1:30 to the Crotch. So I work from home on night skiing days.

I should really put the snow conditions in context. WaWa grooms more frequently, but I consider this a negative on days when I really want to ski. In Crotched's defense, lower skier traffic means they don't need it as frequently. For night skiing, WaWa grooms before every session. The Crotch will groom just their beginner trails at 9pm before the midnight madness sessions.

I think that Crotched has the best snowmaking capacity per acre. The will resurface the whole mountain within 48 hours of a rain storm. Having all fan guns this is much easier for them. This year stretched that practice to a breaking point by late February.


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[gmcunni]

Sugarbush offers the most "family friendly" pricing by including a free 12 and under kid pass with the purchase of any Adult 7 pass as well as low cost Youth passes for ages 7-18.

SB - 2 adults 2 kids under 12 = $2298
MS - 2 adults 2 kids under (7-17) = $1996

personal preference, if everything else was equal (drive time & lodging options) i'd pick SB


*current prices on web sites. not sure about SB but MS will go up shortly.

 

[Puck it]

Ragged season passes $249 before April 15.


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Where is this from?

 

[yeggous]

Where is this from?

http://zimsport.com/events/1464/


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[Zand]

Crotched compared to WaWa? Here's my take...

Crotched advantages:

1) Much better snowmaking. 100% fan gun and they resurface frequently. In my experience they have the most reliable snow surfaces in New England. Period.

2) No lift lines. Read that again if you're a WaWa skier. No lift lines!

3) Weekend hours until 3am. You can get a full ski day after work on Friday.

4) Glades. WaWa has none, the Crotch has decent glades.

5) The Crotch has sustained pitch. WaWa is pretty flat and what little pitch exists is broken up by the road and flattens out at the bottom.

6) Rocket Fuel IPA at the bar. That's decent beer, and their bar prices are more reasonable.

7) Grooming. WaWa will unapologetically groom out powder. On a pow day the Crotch will typically groom out one groomer track wide on each trail for lesser skiers, and won't touch the rest. After work I can still catch freshies at the Crotch. WaWa will have groomed it out.

8) Less school groups.

WaWa advantages:

1) Location. The roads to the Crotch suck. WaWa is very easy to get to.

2) Sunday night skiing at WaWa is something the Crotch lacks.

3) The demo ski selection at WaWa is excellent. You can run the rack.

4) Cider donuts. Yes, I'm serious. Their cider shack is tight.

Even advantage:

1) Season passes. Max Pass vs Peaks Pass is a draw.

2) Vertical is very similar.

3) Lifts are both fast.

Never been to Crotched but I have heard many good things about it. If I lived east of Wachusett like you do so that Crotched was only 20 minutes further, I'd much more highly consider switching to there. But an extra hour is a big hit. I work 7:30-4 so if I were to ski crotched I'd get there at 6 if I went straight from work and probably not till almost 7 if I stopped at home and had something to eat before I left. With Wachusett, I can go home, have dinner, then drive 30 minutes and ski 7-10ish or so and then be back and in bed by 11.

On your first point, I think that yes the fan guns would make a difference with getting things resurfaced quickly and making the conditions better after a rain or thaw-freeze. However I think Wachusett has a stronger ability to open things up much faster and you can tell by the way they seem to be able to open a week or two earlier every season.

Lines are avoidable at Wachusett if you know when to go. School groups leave by 7-7:30 on weeknights so it's always ski on for those last 3 hours. And with the economy the way it is school groups are considerably smaller now than they were 10 years ago when I was in high school. Sure they still suck to deal with, but the lines on weeknights haven't been what they used to be.

I don't get real weekends so 3 am doesn't really matter to me. I'd love it if I did have weekends. Wachusett does midnight madness once a month which is obviously a hell of a lot less often and less hours than Crotched does.

I'll plead the fifth on Wachusett and glades. On map glades would be nice though lol although the average skier there would probably end up in the hospital about 100 feet into any glade so maybe it's a good thing that there aren't any on the map.

The grooming point is what pisses me off the most about Wawa. It's nice that they're so intent on doing it at night when things really get skied off and the grooming helps, but there's been many powder nights when I wanted to start a human chain so that the groomers couldn't get up there. It's ridiculous. Groom the beginner trails, fine, but at least leave Smith and 10th untouched for one session.

I think if the drive time was a little more equal I'd probably pretty easily switch over, but an extra $269 for a Wawa pass is worth not driving an extra 2 hours everytime I want to go night skiing for a couple hours.

 

[skiur]

Killington prices are out, seems to be the same as last yeat

http://www.killington.com/site/tickets/winter_passes/season_passes

 

[cdskier]

Killington prices are out, seems to be the same as last yeat

http://www.killington.com/site/tickets/winter_passes/season_passes

Not entirely the same.

Super Senior and Child are the same. Adult, Senior, and Youth went up $20. 29-Below went down $20.

 

[yeggous]

On your first point, I think that yes the fan guns would make a difference with getting things resurfaced quickly and making the conditions better after a rain or thaw-freeze. However I think Wachusett has a stronger ability to open things up much faster and you can tell by the way they seem to be able to open a week or two earlier every season.

Lines are avoidable at Wachusett if you know when to go. School groups leave by 7-7:30 on weeknights so it's always ski on for those last 3 hours. And with the economy the way it is school groups are considerably smaller now than they were 10 years ago when I was in high school. Sure they still suck to deal with, but the lines on weeknights haven't been what they used to be.

Early season snowmaking is not a priority for Crotched for two reasons. First, their capacity is such that they can open very quickly if they get good temperatures once they start to blow. Needing less time to put down snow means you can start later. Second, Peak Resorts focuses on Wildcat early and late season. This gives the pass holders a place to go without blowing snow everywhere for a limited demand. This is the same strategy that Boyne takes with Sunday River, etc.

Really? The economy? Try again. The unemployment rate today is almost identical to where it was 10 years ago. Sure, the economy went to hell in 2008, but since mid-2009 is has undergone a continuous recovery and made up all the lost ground. Today's job market is healthy by any standard.

If there are real differences in school-age crowds, they're likely to be demographic changes in skiing as a whole. The industry talks a lot about the aging of their customer base, and I'm sure this must be visible at Wachusett too.

 

[Jcb890]

Early season snowmaking is not a priority for Crotched for two reasons. First, their capacity is such that they can open very quickly if they get good temperatures once they start to blow. Needing less time to put down snow means you can start later. Second, Peak Resorts focuses on Wildcat early and late season. This gives the pass holders a place to go without blowing snow everywhere for a limited demand. This is the same strategy that Boyne takes with Sunday River, etc.

Really? The economy? Try again. The unemployment rate today is almost identical to where it was 10 years ago. Sure, the economy went to hell in 2008, but since mid-2009 is has undergone a continuous recovery and made up all the lost ground. Today's job market is healthy by any standard.

If there are real differences in school-age crowds, they're likely to be demographic changes in skiing as a whole. The industry talks a lot about the aging of their customer base, and I'm sure this must be visible at Wachusett too.

Without getting this too far off topic and talking about the economy, taking inflation into account, people make less today on average.

Okay back to Crotched vs. Wachusett...

 

[Jully]

Without getting this too far off topic and talking about the economy, taking inflation into account, people make less today on average.

Okay back to Crotched vs. Wachusett...

But to make parents not have their kids learn how to ski or enroll them in a school program? Not in Massachusetts, especially near Boston. I personally think the aging customer base and just less of an interest in skiing in general would be to blame.