Alterra and DV Presidents Speak at Virtual Town Hall Event in Park City

[thetrailboss]

I'm very happy that I will have a pass to SB..and would have paid 1049.00 for it..but Ikon is a steal.

So for you and other SB regulars, now that you are on IKON, will you go to Killington more often?

 

[cdskier]

So for you and other SB regulars, now that you are on IKON, will you go to Killington more often?

kingslug is/was a Stowe regular and has a place up there who's now converting to SB partially (think he plans to have multiple passes next year if I recall correctly).

Anyway, for me personally as an SB regular, I'd have to say I'm not really sure. I'm off from work this coming week and am toying with the idea of driving down to K 1 day for a change of pace. I haven't been there in probably 10 years now. Realistically under normal conditions when SB is skiing well and everything is open, it would be hard to justify the hour drive from my condo to ski at K. The one thing I could maybe see doing in a normal year when I'm doing my regular back and forth between NJ and SB every weekend is hitting K (or more likely Pico) on a Sunday on the way home to NJ. I think in a "best case" scenario I'd use maybe 2 of my K/Pico days. I can't see using much more than that.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

early/late season. not everyone is into it, but killington is so good at getting me skiing in November and May

 

[cdskier]

early/late season. not everyone is into it, but killington is so good at getting me skiing in November and May

For me neither of those are a big draw. I'm not going to drive 5 hours to my condo from NJ and then another hour to K in November to ski in crowds on a handful of trails. And once May hits I lose my motivation as well to ski. Plus there tends to be more things going on back home that I start getting caught up in. Maybe one year if K looked good for early June I'd try to sneak in a day then just to say I skied in June.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

superstar in a t-shirt and shorts with a backpack full of cheap beer in may is super fun. but i hear you.

november on the north ridge is nothing special, and i tend to wait in long lines for laps of the same 3 600 vertical foot trails. but i am so amped just to be back on snow, its become a tradition.

 

[FBGM]

I ski Ikon cuz it’s cheap and has 5 resorts within 30 min. DV is a gem. They can charge whatever they want and the people will come. And if they don’t that’s fine. Real estate holdings are insane there. Money is no issue. Infrastructure there is top notch and minimal improvements are needed.

But crowds suck everywhere. Covid or not. Ikon and Epic obviously are to “blame”. But if you don’t like it, don’t ski. That’s how I see it. I’ve skied more BC this year then resort. It’s been fine. As long as your not getting killed by some jong above you.

And lol at wage comments. That will make no friends in Park City. Peeps here are gonna be at your door with pitch forks.

 

[JimG.]

I agree somewhat, but not entirely. Without having access to the analytical data, it is hard to say what the price should be because I don't know the usage patterns of the passes that are sold. Keep in mind that there are a number of people that buy a "megapass" with the intention of using it at a single resort (essentially what I do with Ikon at Sugarbush). Is that a large percentage of the typical usage or a small percentage? $2K might be fair for a true mega-pass with no restrictions AS LONG AS individual mountain season passes to the resorts in that particular mega-pass's portfolio are offered for a substantially lower price (say ~$1K). The problem right now is that "tiering" really doesn't exist. For a Sugarbush skier, you basically have no choice other than Ikon (unless you are local and ski mid-week and can get away with one of the cheaper mid-week SB-only type passes that they still offer).

I still think the ideal scenario for mega-passes is to require you to pick a "home" resort where you get unlimited access and then you get only a limited number of days everywhere else on the pass.

Very fair point.

Especially from a property owner there.

 

[thetrailboss]

early/late season. not everyone is into it, but killington is so good at getting me skiing in November and May

Agreed.

 

[abc]

superstar in a t-shirt and shorts with a backpack full of cheap beer in may is super fun. but i hear you.

I'm into late season. I used to do K in May when they have tons of coupons to allow me to ski it for a song.

But that's not enough to take me to IKON though. I'll buy only it strictly for going out west. And I'll ski SB, K, Stratton depending on condition. Even though Stratton's terrain is lame and crowd big, it's on a different weather path than K and SB. It often catches the coastal storm while K and SB got skunked.

 

[kingslug]

So for you and other SB regulars, now that you are on IKON, will you go to Killington more often?

Sure..it is a bit far from Stowe...slow ride..but i'll hit it for sure.. And I usually start the season there and sometimes end it.

 

[machski]

Yep. Exactly.


Well, we are in a similar situation. The pass and population growth have accelerated the problem. The wildcard here though is that Utah has been considering doing "something" to 210 for a while now and Alta/Bird are hoping that we taxpayers will bail them out of this situation so that they can continue to have more skiers and riders. So both are waiting to see what happens to 210. If nothing really changes then I would imagine that the cacophony of us passholders will eventually make them consider a change.

And the biggest losers here have been Brighton passholders. In my ten years out here, there have always been days when avalanche/weather closed LCC or created traffic backups. BCC--not so much. Before Solitude was bought by Alterra and became the "unlimited" Ikon resort, backups on 190 were rare and limited to powder days when LCC was closed. Now traffic is backed up onto 215 nearly every weekend and holiday. That is insane.

My point was Alta/Bird are not Alterra owned and weren't and still are not unlimited on either pass, let alone both. So does the Ikon add pressure on 210 and LCC? Sure, no doubt. But it cannot be the end all be all of the congestion with passholders having a max of 7 days use up that canyon. The Alta and Bird passes themselves must be causing a bigger amount of congestion, it's simple math. So no, while your situation may look like Crystal's, it isn't the same. Not to mention there are other Ikon options around SLC. Now, want to talk about BCC and Ikon causing big issues up that Canyon, I can side with that as Solitude is unlimited us 5 or 7 more days of use at Brighton.

 

[thetrailboss]

My point was Alta/Bird are not Alterra owned and weren't and still are not unlimited on either pass, let alone both. So does the Ikon add pressure on 210 and LCC? Sure, no doubt. But it cannot be the end all be all of the congestion with passholders having a max of 7 days use up that canyon. The Alta and Bird passes themselves must be causing a bigger amount of congestion, it's simple math. So no, while your situation may look like Crystal's, it isn't the same. Not to mention there are other Ikon options around SLC. Now, want to talk about BCC and Ikon causing big issues up that Canyon, I can side with that as Solitude is unlimited us 5 or 7 more days of use at Brighton.

It is a big part of LCC’s problem. Come on a blackout day or now that people are out of days and there are no traffic issues. It’s pretty clear.

 

[cdskier]

So for you and other SB regulars, now that you are on IKON, will you go to Killington more often?

So now that I skied K today for the first time in 10 years, let me re-visit this question with my latest thoughts. Honestly I was a little disappointed and would only go back mid-winter with good conditions and all trails in play. With only the snow-making trails currently open for the most part, I was sort of bored. Too many big wide trails with no character. A number of trails that looked very skiable but were closed (I kept thinking that at SB, patrol would've had them open). I was also surprised at the number of trails with snow-making that were melting out and closed already. I do suspect the natural trails that aren't open and the woods would be things I would enjoy though...hence why I would only go back with everything open so I can focus more on that terrain. Otherwise as long as SB is open, it doesn't seem worth the hour drive from the MRV to me.

Now I do still want to get back to Pico next year. I always remember liking their terrain better than K's and want to see if my memory is correct. I remember their trails being more of the "classic New England" variety where they're narrower, twistier, have more character, etc. Hope I'm right about that when I do make it back there.

 

[ss20]

So now that I skied K today for the first time in 10 years, let me re-visit this question with my latest thoughts. Honestly I was a little disappointed and would only go back mid-winter with good conditions and all trails in play. With only the snow-making trails currently open for the most part, I was sort of bored. Too many big wide trails with no character. A number of trails that looked very skiable but were closed (I kept thinking that at SB, patrol would've had them open). I was also surprised at the number of trails with snow-making that were melting out and closed already. I do suspect the natural trails that aren't open and the woods would be things I would enjoy though...hence why I would only go back with everything open so I can focus more on that terrain. Otherwise as long as SB is open, it doesn't seem worth the hour drive from the MRV to me.

Now I do still want to get back to Pico next year. I always remember liking their terrain better than K's and want to see if my memory is correct. I remember their trails being more of the "classic New England" variety where they're narrower, twistier, have more character, etc. Hope I'm right about that when I do make it back there.

Pico does have more character than Killington- the one department Killington really lacks and it sucks. The Summit Glades, KA, and Giant Killer to name a few. The old Poma line will scare the crap outta you...I'd argue it's tougher than Rumble at SB but doesn't get the attention as it's technically not a trail.

K woods and SB woods are equal in my opinion, when the snow is equal (as it was this year as Killington got more snow than SB, quite rare). Killington woods do certainly see more traffic though, I would say. But if you go midweek and there's fresh the powder lasts a loooong time in places that are on-the-map but a PITA to get to (Centerpiece, Patsy's, Anarchy, Roundabout glade). But Killington has nothing on Castlerock or Mt. Ellen or Paradise. Just as SB has nothing on Killington after Cinco de Mayo or before Christmas!

My thought has always been, if Killington and SB both got 3 feet of snow and I had to choose a full midweek between the two, I'd choose SB. If I had to do a season pass, it's always going to be K. Peak season SB definitely has superior terrain, but all those days where its "less than peak" Killington will almost always have better options, especially pre-Christmas.

 

[cdskier]

Pico does have more character than Killington- the one department Killington really lacks and it sucks. The Summit Glades, KA, and Giant Killer to name a few. The old Poma line will scare the crap outta you...I'd argue it's tougher than Rumble at SB but doesn't get the attention as it's technically not a trail.

K woods and SB woods are equal in my opinion, when the snow is equal (as it was this year as Killington got more snow than SB, quite rare). Killington woods do certainly see more traffic though, I would say. But if you go midweek and there's fresh the powder lasts a loooong time in places that are on-the-map but a PITA to get to (Centerpiece, Patsy's, Anarchy, Roundabout glade). But Killington has nothing on Castlerock or Mt. Ellen or Paradise. Just as SB has nothing on Killington after Cinco de Mayo or before Christmas!

My thought has always been, if Killington and SB both got 3 feet of snow and I had to choose a full midweek between the two, I'd choose SB. If I had to do a season pass, it's always going to be K. Peak season SB definitely has superior terrain, but all those days where its "less than peak" Killington will almost always have better options, especially pre-Christmas.

Those Pico trails you're mentioning are exactly some of the ones I remember loving. And the K woods are something I wouldn't mind checking out. Skiing past a few of them today I thought they looked pretty interesting. 10+ years ago when I skied K more I wasn't into woods, so I have absolutely no experience with K's woods.

One thing I didn't mention, I did like what K did with all those tunnels to eliminate the traffic jams at the various crossover trails. I can see that being a big help.

As for pre-Christmas, at that point I don't personally need a ton of terrain. Spring Fling, Ripcord, Jester, etc are good enough for me as I just need terrain to help me get back into skiing-shape at that point. K will definitely have more with their snowmaking capabilities, although I'm not sure I'd agree they would have "better" options (just my personal opinion...). I was thinking to myself today the couple times I rode the North Ridge quad that "I can't believe people actually wait in lines early season to ski these handful of trails with only 600 ft vertical." As much as I love skiing, that part just definitely isn't for me. I'll leave that for others and just wait until SB opens to get my fix. Even with it being "free" with Ikon, I still can't see myself ever doing that real early season stuff at K. Just like the post Cinco de Mayo scene isn't worth it to me (although at least with that one I can see the appeal). On that topic, I thought Superstar had a lot less depth than I remember from years ago. I could be entirely wrong and just misremembering how deep it was years ago.

 

[ss20]

Those Pico trails you're mentioning are exactly some of the ones I remember loving. And the K woods are something I wouldn't mind checking out. Skiing past a few of them today I thought they looked pretty interesting. 10+ years ago when I skied K more I wasn't into woods, so I have absolutely no experience with K's woods.

One thing I didn't mention, I did like what K did with all those tunnels to eliminate the traffic jams at the various crossover trails. I can see that being a big help.

As for pre-Christmas, at that point I don't personally need a ton of terrain. Spring Fling, Ripcord, Jester, etc are good enough for me as I just need terrain to help me get back into skiing-shape at that point. K will definitely have more with their snowmaking capabilities, although I'm not sure I'd agree they would have "better" options (just my personal opinion...). I was thinking to myself today the couple times I rode the North Ridge quad that "I can't believe people actually wait in lines early season to ski these handful of trails with only 600 ft vertical." As much as I love skiing, that part just definitely isn't for me. I'll leave that for others and just wait until SB opens to get my fix. Even with it being "free" with Ikon, I still can't see myself ever doing that real early season stuff at K. Just like the post Cinco de Mayo scene isn't worth it to me (although at least with that one I can see the appeal). On that topic, I thought Superstar had a lot less depth than I remember from years ago. I could be entirely wrong and just misremembering how deep it was years ago.

They blew less on Superstar and more on Bear to try to have multiple base areas open longer through the season and spread people out.

I'm not keen on North Ridge-only skiing early season. This late in the skiing though, personally, I prefer K's offerings to SB. A lot more steep stuff is still skiable...just maybe not today with the re-freeze. Outer Limits, Cascade, Downdraft, Ovation, Double Dipper all still going while my understanding is for super steeps SB is down to Ripcord and Stein's.

The never-ending Killington-Sugarbush debate....always fun to have!

 

[cdskier]

They blew less on Superstar and more on Bear to try to have multiple base areas open longer through the season and spread people out.

I'm not keen on North Ridge-only skiing early season. This late in the skiing though, personally, I prefer K's offerings to SB. A lot more steep stuff is still skiable...just maybe not today with the re-freeze. Outer Limits, Cascade, Downdraft, Ovation, Double Dipper all still going while my understanding is for super steeps SB is down to Ripcord and Stein's.

The never-ending Killington-Sugarbush debate....always fun to have!

Cascade was open all day today. Wish more steep stuff was open today. Outer Limits opened later in the day (after I had left the Bear side). Lower Double Dipper and Ovation were closed (Lower Double Dipper and Lower Ovation look questionable on whether K will open them back up at all as they had some pretty significant bare spots forming). Downdraft was only partially open (although middle and lower either opened later in the day or are expected to be open tomorrow based on the current trail report). I wish they were running the Canyon quad mid-week so you could access that terrain without needing to take the K1 Gondola. (No Bear Mountain Quad either mid-week is also a pain if you want to ski OL).

 

[thetrailboss]

So now that I skied K today for the first time in 10 years, let me re-visit this question with my latest thoughts. Honestly I was a little disappointed and would only go back mid-winter with good conditions and all trails in play. With only the snow-making trails currently open for the most part, I was sort of bored. Too many big wide trails with no character. A number of trails that looked very skiable but were closed (I kept thinking that at SB, patrol would've had them open). I was also surprised at the number of trails with snow-making that were melting out and closed already. I do suspect the natural trails that aren't open and the woods would be things I would enjoy though...hence why I would only go back with everything open so I can focus more on that terrain. Otherwise as long as SB is open, it doesn't seem worth the hour drive from the MRV to me.

Now I do still want to get back to Pico next year. I always remember liking their terrain better than K's and want to see if my memory is correct. I remember their trails being more of the "classic New England" variety where they're narrower, twistier, have more character, etc. Hope I'm right about that when I do make it back there.

I'm curious to know if any upkeep/maintenance/upgrades have been done at Pico. It is a great mountain that, anywhere else, would be a real star. Sitting next to Killington is its blessing and curse. I felt that the last time I was there it was forgotten.

 

[cdskier]

I'm curious to know if any upkeep/maintenance/upgrades have been done at Pico. It is a great mountain that, anywhere else, would be a real star. Sitting next to Killington is its blessing and curse. I felt that the last time I was there it was forgotten.

They've done some significant snowmaking upgrades recently (including tapping into K's water supply):

https://www.picomountain.com/the-mountain/mountain-info/mountain-improvements

Beyond that I'm not sure what else needs to be done. Other than snowmaking, I never really felt it was neglected. I don't really remember the lodge too well, but that's never really something I focus on at any resort. A no frills lodge is fine with me as long as it is functional. Lifts seemed adequate last time I was there. I'd only replace lifts if it is needed due to age. Capacity wise I thought they were fine.

Next year I really want to make it my goal to get back there.

 

[kingslug]

Haven't been to Pico in 20 years..Next season for sure. Good continuous vertical.