Attn. Killington, Chris Danforth, Marketing Manager - RE: SPRING SKIING

[deadheadskier]

They've been doing this since they took over. How is this year any different then the last 4? You make it sound as though it's unique to killington to do this. Go to any ski area in april. It's a ghost town with a skeleton crew and minimal lifts. If people are bailing, where are they going? I say that they simply arent skiing in spring like they used to. Do you think if they kept bear open longer they would see a dramatic spike in business? You are usually good with facts so tell me a) how many people have they lost since they started closing bear early. b) where are these people going c) what area doesnt massively reduce its trail count in spring.

I dont think too many casual skiers are trekking from boston and NYC up to Jay just because they keep the entire mountain open as long as possible. Sugarbush closes HALF its terrain march 31. Mt. Ellen shuts down entirely.

Skied Shawnee Peak in Maine yesterday. They're down to operating the East / Sunnyside Triple on Weekends only. You can still ski the top 1/3 of the trails on that side, but it's a bit of a pain to get back to the main face. So, essentially a 1/3rd of their terrain (and my preferred terrain at that)is closed down mid-week. This despite great coverage on those trails and it being pretty busy with a Special Olympics event and several college race teams training for Nationals at Sunday River later in the week.

 

[Highway Star]

They've been doing this since they took over. How is this year any different then the last 4? You make it sound as though it's unique to killington to do this. Go to any ski area in april. It's a ghost town with a skeleton crew and minimal lifts. If people are bailing, where are they going? I say that they simply arent skiing in spring like they used to. Do you think if they kept bear open longer they would see a dramatic spike in business? You are usually good with facts so tell me a) how many people have they lost since they started closing bear early. b) where are these people going c) what area doesnt massively reduce its trail count in spring.

I dont think too many casual skiers are trekking from boston and NYC up to Jay just because they keep the entire mountain open as long as possible. Sugarbush closes HALF its terrain march 31. Mt. Ellen shuts down entirely.

Actually, they've been doing it since the mid-'00's, in last few years of ASC.

SO POWDR REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY IDEA IF IT WOULD BE PROFITABLE.

It is FACT that after the last weekend of Bear, Killington goes to about 40% open, while several other mountains in the region stay at 80-100%.

Why would people come to Killington if they are barely open in April??? Oh, that's right, they DON'T. People go to other resorts!

I firmly believe that if Killington kept Bear open until mid-late april, even on the weekends only, they would see greatly increased skier visits, revenue and profits, due to competing more strongly with other resorts. If you don't believe this, you're a fool (or Killington management).

 

[2knees]

Actually, they've been doing it since the mid-'00's, in last few years of ASC.

SO POWDR REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY IDEA IF IT WOULD BE PROFITABLE.

It is FACT that after the last weekend of Bear, Killington goes to about 40% open, while several other mountains in the region stay at 80-100%.

Why would people come to Killington if they are barely open in April??? Oh, that's right, they DON'T. People go to other resorts!

I firmly believe that if Killington kept Bear open until mid-late april, even on the weekends only, they would see greatly increased skier visits, revenue and profits, due to competing more strongly with other resorts. If you don't believe this, you're a fool.

Several in the region stay at 80 to 100%. Who? Bromley, okemo, stratton, magic, sugarbush, snow. cant think of any other area that could be considered "in their region". Bromley doesnt have the terrain to begin with and closes early april.. same for stratton. snow, may stay open longer but again, it aint competing with killington in terms of terrain. Magic, right, april is a total crapshoot there. Sugarbush closes mt ellen entirely. Okemo. they also close down mid april and i wont even go there in terms of what your skiing.

I may be a fool bro, but i dont see any facts to back up your argument. If you putting stowe in the region, that's a stretch but i'll give it to you. Everyone who skied at k in the mid 00's now goes to stowe in the spring? I think you may be a bit foolish to believe that.

 

[skiingsnow]

In this case, i would go with HS numbers. 40 trails means real trails, not uppers, mids, lowers and little connectors which are part of the official trail count.

Every mountain he would be comparing Killington to has a trail count that is done the same way that Killington's is, includes small connector trails and upper/middle/lower.

BTW, Killington does not count every trail that is listed as Upper/Middle/Lower as a seperate trail. Example, todays conditions report says 130 trails are open, 145 trails are listed as open on the trail report. Killington claims a total trail count of 141 trails, trail report lists 155 trails. Killington is the only major ski area I have ever seen that has a large gap in their official 100% open trail count and the actual number of trails listed in the trail report.

 

[2knees]

Every mountain he would be comparing Killington to has a trail count that is done the same way that Killington's is, includes small conector trails and upper/middle/lower.

BTW, Killington does not count every trail that is listed as Upper/Middle/Lower as a seperate trail. Example, todays conditions report says 130 trails are open, 145 trails are listed as open on the trail report. Killington claims a total trail count 141 trails, trail report lists 155 trails. Killington is the only major ski area I have ever seen that has a large gap in their official 100% open trail count and the actual number of trails listed in the trail report.

Actually, I couldn't care less about trail counts. Especially in spring. Give me one good bump run and i will ski it till my legs give out. I shouldnt have even commented.

 

[Highway Star]

Several in the region stay at 80 to 100%. Who? Bromley, okemo, stratton, magic, sugarbush, snow. cant think of any other area that could be considered "in their region". Bromley doesnt have the terrain to begin with and closes early april.. same for stratton. snow, may stay open longer but again, it aint competing with killington in terms of terrain. Magic, right, april is a total crapshoot there. Sugarbush closes mt ellen entirely. Okemo. they also close down mid april and i wont even go there in terms of what your skiing.

I may be a fool bro, but i dont see any facts to back up your argument. If you putting stowe in the region, that's a stretch but i'll give it to you. Everyone who skied at k in the mid 00's now goes to stowe in the spring? I think you may be a bit foolish to believe that.

I've actually skied both Stratton and Bromley in April in the last few years and both were nearly 100% open in that all sections of the mountain were accessable from the open lifts. Imagine that. At Sugarbush, Mount Ellen is only about 1/3rd of the terrain, but is an entirely different area - like Pico (which is still BS).

Point being, for 2nd-4th weekend in April, there are plenty of other compelling options for skiing aside from Killington (with bear closed). POWDR is doing nothing to draw skiers to buy tickets from other areas. Which is why they FAIL.

 

[Highway Star]

BTW, Killington does not count every trail that is listed as Upper/Middle/Lower as a seperate trail. Example, todays conditions report says 130 trails are open, 145 trails are listed as open on the trail report. Killington claims a total trail count of 141 trails, trail report lists 155 trails. Killington is the only major ski area I have ever seen that has a large gap in their official 100% open trail count and the actual number of trails listed in the trail report.

:roll:

Thanks for pointing out just how incompetent they are.

 

[deadheadskier]

If you putting stowe in the region, that's a stretch but i'll give it to you. Everyone who skied at k in the mid 00's now goes to stowe in the spring? I think you may be a bit foolish to believe that.

Stowe would be a bad example actually. They close pretty much the 3rd week of April every year with just the Fore Runner Quad running. The Gondola and Spruce shut down 2-3 weeks prior to that no matter the coverage.

Winter of 2000-2001 "The Big One", Stowe closed the third week of April with 100% of the Mansfield side trails and trees skiable all the way to the base. People were hiking and skiing top to bottom almost until Memorial Day.

 

[Highway Star]

I don't know all the history behind this but it sounds like the real people to blame are politicians in VT and state policy that makes it basically a liability for the resort that can't be handled.

I think back to that photo at Mad River Glen where that old guy is skiing naked and the first thing that comes to my mind today is, how fast would that guy get arrested, not look at the quirky dude actually skiing buck naked.

For the times they are a'changin

Sorry Nick but........

SERIOUSLY????

 

[2knees]

Stowe would be a bad example actually. They close pretty much the 3rd week of April every year with just the Fore Runner Quad running. The Gondola and Spruce shut down 2-3 weeks prior to that no matter the coverage.

Winter of 2000-2001 "The Big One", Stowe closed the third week of April with 100% of the Mansfield side trails and trees skiable all the way to the base. People were hiking and skiing top to bottom almost until Memorial Day.

I know they close at a pre determined date basically every year. While i'm not a stowe skier, just by looking at the map its readily apparent they can access a large swath of good terrain just by running the quad. And, i'm trying hard to give HS some ammo but it just doesnt seem to work. Now, we are comparing bromley and stratton to killington. 100% of bromley isnt 1/2 of killington even after they close bear. and it closes entirely around easter every year. Stratton, same thing, maybe one more week.

I would love killington to keep bear open but the bigger problem as i see it would be the fact that they would groom it every night anyway so what's the point???? :lol:

 

[Nick]

Sorry Nick but........

SERIOUSLY????

At least my seriously wasn't in red size 7 :lol:

 

[St. Bear]

As a dispassionate observer, it seems like it's less about the stricter liquor enforcement and more about how Killington has handled things. Everyone with half a brain realizes that things aren't like they used to be.

I don't think you'd see the outrage if Killington came out and said, "Hey guys, we see a huge liability here with the drinking on our property. We're still going to hold the competition because that's who we are, but we can't have you drinking in public." Instead they seem to be pointing fingers and blaming others for the change.

 

[2knees]

I've actually skied both Stratton and Bromley in April in the last few years and both were nearly 100% open in that all sections of the mountain were accessable from the open lifts. Imagine that.

How bad were the lines with all the people who bailed on k to ski the 100% open stratton and bromley?

I've gone to bromley in april many times. It's been me, 3 locals and the bartender.

 

[Nick]

I kind of read the statement as the latter half. On a side note, I'm merging this with the other thread while it turns into complaints about everything.

 

[2knees]

I kind of read the statement as the latter half. On a side note, I'm merging this with the other thread while it turns into complaints about everything.

I cant remember the last time i complained about a thing like this but HS other thread, to me, should be left alone. Two entirely different issues here. Killing the bmmc is a sad thing considering how iconic it was to eastern mogul skiiing.

 

[Highway Star]

How bad were the lines with all the people who bailed on k to ski the 100% open stratton and bromley?

I've gone to bromley in april many times. It's been me, 3 locals and the bartender.

It was mobbed!!!!! :flame:

 

[2knees]

It was mobbed!!!!! :flame:

:lol:

You win.

 

[oakapple]

SO POWDR REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY IDEA IF IT WOULD BE PROFITABLE.

And neither do you.

But at the very least, they must have SOME data that we do not have, e.g., the marginal cost of keeping Bear open. Contrary to what some have frequently suggested, I am not saying that their decision is necessarily correct, only that it is not necessarily incorrect, and it is probably based on information (however flawed or incomplete) that is not available to us.

It is FACT that after the last weekend of Bear, Killington goes to about 40% open, while several other mountains in the region stay at 80-100%.

40 percent of Killington is nevertheless bigger than 80 percent at many other places.

 

[Nick]

I cant remember the last time i complained about a thing like this but HS other thread, to me, should be left alone. Two entirely different issues here. Killing the bmmc is a sad thing considering how iconic it was to eastern mogul skiiing.

All the thread title was had to do with "BMMC Outrage" and then a link to a facebook page.

It wasn't even clear until 2 posts in that it had been cancelled.

Anyways, I thought the threads would merge in topics and cross over pretty dramatically in conversation so that was why I merged them.

 

[Highway Star]

All the thread title was had to do with "BMMC Outrage" and then a link to a facebook page.

It wasn't even clear until 2 posts in that it had been cancelled.

Anyways, I thought the threads would merge in topics and cross over pretty dramatically in conversation so that was why I merged them.

Nick, your thoughtful moderation "keeps the bar hgh".