Big Burke announcement

[SkiRaceParent]

I'm happy to see that most here are taking a wait and see attitude. One thought on why the mountain is being underinvested in right now and that the hotel will see a large spike in investment, both in terms of infrastructure and personnel, is that I imagine that the EB-5 funding can help to fund things besides just the physical infrastructure of the hotel. Also, if you really want to have a jobs calculation that shows incremental ~10 jobs per 500k investor, you probably would want to start out by really trimming back on the # of people before the hotel gets built out. Hopefully, the +1 that matters most on incremental job creation will actually be a +2 (Hotel Mgr and Mtn Mgr) and a -1 (Ary Jr.)

 

[BenedictGomez]

The thing I still don't understand is what Burke is going to offer and/or compete on to fill those 110+ hotel rooms during all the non-holiday weekends?

Why would folks drive past or farther than s.VT, Sugarbush, MRG, Killington, Stowe, and all the NH places to ski and stay at Burke?

 

[from_the_NEK]

I'm happy to see that most here are taking a wait and see attitude. One thought on why the mountain is being underinvested in right now and that the hotel will see a large spike in investment, both in terms of infrastructure and personnel, is that I imagine that the EB-5 funding can help to fund things besides just the physical infrastructure of the hotel.

EB-5 $ can only be used on the physical construction project that it is designated for. It can only be used for new construction as well. No renovations, etc.

Also, if you really want to have a jobs calculation that shows incremental ~10 jobs per 500k investor, you probably would want to start out by really trimming back on the # of people before the hotel gets built out. Hopefully, the +1 that matters most on incremental job creation will actually be a +2 (Hotel Mgr and Mtn Mgr) and a -1 (Ary Jr.)

Interesting theory that drawing down the number of people employed at Burke right now, will help them meet their "jobs created" mark when they hire more people after the hotel is complete.

 

[xwhaler]

The thing I still don't understand is what Burke is going to offer and/or compete on to fill those 110+ hotel rooms during all the non-holiday weekends?

Why would folks drive past or farther than s.VT, Sugarbush, MRG, Killington, Stowe, and all the NH places to ski and stay at Burke?

Less crowded, probably a better value, really nice terrain serviced by a HSQ, great learning area again with a HSQ. Brand new hotel.
Lots of draws to Burke IMHO

 

[SkiRaceParent]

EB-5 $ can only be used on the physical construction project that it is designated for. It can only be used for new construction as well. No renovations.

True, however I assume a little 'tricky math' can be done on the infrastructure right around the hotel and the grey line between it and the mountain (for instance, the magic carpet they will be installing) and the snow making right around the hotel.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Less crowded, probably a better value, really nice terrain serviced by a HSQ, great learning area again with a HSQ. Brand new hotel.
Lots of draws to Burke IMHO

I agree, also, I have been hearing a ton of complaints about lift lines at places like Loon and Waterville lately. Someone even told me that they're willing to drive the 50 minutes to and from their condo in Lincoln (Loon) each way to Burke because they will get in more runs at Burke, even while adding in the drive time.

 

[xwhaler]

I agree, also, I have been hearing a ton of complaints about lift lines at places like Loon and Waterville lately. Someone even told me that they're willing to drive the 50 minutes to and from their condo in Lincoln (Loon) each way to Burke because they will get in more runs at Burke, even while adding in the drive time.

I believe it....with Burke's HSQ and lack of lines you can bag a ton of vertical up there. I'm always in favor of driving further and not standing in lines.
Burke's terrain really does offer something for everyone. That learning area is really great and I think will prove to be very popular with families once Burke is discovered.

 

[VTKilarney]

Burke's terrain really does offer something for everyone. That learning area is really great and I think will prove to be very popular with families once Burke is discovered.

With one exception. There is no good trail to transition from the learning area to the main mountain. But your point is well taken.

Let's not be naive about driving. Burke has always had to deal with that issue. It's not going away. But... there are definitely people willing to make the drive. Lots of them own condos and were at the meeting the other night. The question is whether or not there are enough of those people out there to warrant a new hotel. That's where a cracker jack marketing team is going to have to come in.

 

[from_the_NEK]

With one exception. There is no good trail to transition from the learning area to the main mountain. But your point is well taken.

Which is why this should be the priority over East Bowl....

 

[thetrailboss]

Just got an Email blast that Burke is borrowing John Egan from Sugarbush for a special event on March 9-10th.

 

[VTKilarney]

Which is why this should be the priority over East Bowl....

Agreed.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Interesting theory that drawing down the number of people employed at Burke right now, will help them meet their "jobs created" mark when they hire more people after the hotel is complete.

LOL. That would be intentionally fraudulent manipulation of the numbers, but I've seen worse shenanigans. I had to do some accounting for the Economic Stimulus back in 2008/2009, and I felt like I needed to take a shower from the "jobs created and saved" metric it was so dirty.

True, however I assume a little 'tricky math' can be done on the infrastructure right around the hotel and the grey line between it and the mountain (for instance, the magic carpet they will be installing) and the snow making right around the hotel.

EB-5 cant be used for snow-making or other capital equipment purchases.

 

[from_the_NEK]

LOL. That would be intentionally fraudulent manipulation of the numbers, but I've seen worse shenanigans.

I'd say more a convenient manipulation.
Burke has pretty much always run in the red. Reducing staff to balance the ledger is perfectly legal even though it sucks for everyone involved. Once the hotel is built, many of those positions have a chance of coming back as the demand for the services potentially increases.

 

[River19]

I'd say more a convenient manipulation.
Burke has pretty much always run in the red. Reducing staff to balance the ledger is perfectly legal even though it sucks for everyone involved. Once the hotel is built, many of those positions have a chance of coming back as the demand for the services potentially increases.

And since it would help their jobs created number look healthier.....in their mind a win/win.

It will be interesting if the hotel can draw enough summer business to justify keeping it open all year.

 

[Masskier]

The snowmaking system needs a $2M upgrade at minimum. It will be a long time before the hotel earnings will cover that. The Qs need to bite the bullet and shell out that money upfront otherwise they will have a lot of empty hotel rooms making no money at all for them.

Agreed. Probably more than $2 mill if they are going to redo the whole thing and add more coverage. If they are going to run a ski area they need to invest in the product.

A lot more. The system that SMI is designing for Burke is "state of the art". It will be a substantial investment that will be made over a few years.

 

[Masskier]

They stated they are going to increase compressor capacity for next year... (So that means they'll just have a handful of rental diesel compressors that Ary did away with? Seems like without giving out a solid explanation of what they plan to do to remedy the shortfall, all they are inferring is that they'll be back to where they were last year, without actually fixing any problems.

I think (hope) the plan is to add electric compressors and to increase the pumping capacity on the upper mountain for next year.

 

[VTKilarney]

A lot more. The system that SMI is designing for Burke is "state of the art". It will be a substantial investment that will be made over a few years.

I don't think that anyone is questioning the overall goal. The concern that has been expressed here has to do with the reality of a plan that counts on hotel revenues to pay for it. But, frankly, I'm not asking for a state of the art system right now. I'm just asking for something moderately acceptable. That's why I am keeping an open mind and am eagerly awaiting the plans that they release for next year.

 

[VTKilarney]

I think (hope) the plan is to add electric compressors and to increase the pumping capacity on the upper mountain for next year.

If they said that electricity was an impediment, why not diesel compressors?

 

[thetrailboss]

I think we have to be realistic with these guys. It would be GREAT if they got back to where they were for next season. That is doable. I would not expect major upgrades or work for next season. Remember that these guys lately have been overpromising and underdelivering. Don't agree with me? Well, enjoy your ride on the new Bonnie Six Pack at Jay....that was supposed to be installed in 2013.

 

[the original trailboss]

If they said that electricity was an impediment, why not diesel compressors?

Diesel compressors were used in the past but I believe the increase in diesel fuel prompted a change to electric. Now that the diesel cost has changed it would likely make sense to go back.