Big Burke announcement

[AdironRider]

It does seem ambitious. I would imagine that Stenger and Company have done their research though.

He hasn't been proven wrong yet.

But while through a different program, this kinda sorta feels like ASC before it imploded. That is some serious coin to throw at a mountain that does under 100k skier visits.

 

[Zand]

Too bad they can't work on St. Johnsbury too... now it's really gonna be the sh*thole of the NEK lol.

 

[Smellytele]

He hasn't been proven wrong yet.

But while through a different program, this kinda sorta feels like ASC before it imploded. That is some serious coin to throw at a mountain that does under 100k skier visits.

The difference being ASC was leveraged and this is free money from people wanting to live in the country.

 

[AdironRider]

The difference being ASC was leveraged and this is free money from people wanting to live in the country.

Theres a bit more to it than that, but as I said previously, its a different animal for sure.

Anyone know how long those 10 jobs per 500k need to be for? Or can they be temporary like construction workers? They need 1000 jobs for the 500 million they mention.

 

[thetrailboss]

He hasn't been proven wrong yet.

But while through a different program, this kinda sorta feels like ASC before it imploded. That is some serious coin to throw at a mountain that does under 100k skier visits.

I'm not sure if it is like ASC.

And when you factor in the increasing bike traffic, the number of visitors to Burke is on the rise. I'd imagine that with the improvements, and some good PR, the numbers of skiers will increase. They have yet to break the 100k mark. This year will be a test. An average ski season, and some good advertising, should give them a sense as to what they can get.

 

[thetrailboss]

...and EB-5 money is not free by any means. Those folks do expect some kind of payout eventually. It's like any other investment.

 

[AdironRider]

I'm not sure if it is like ASC.

And when you factor in the increasing bike traffic, the number of visitors to Burke is on the rise. I'd imagine that with the improvements, and some good PR, the numbers of skiers will increase. They have yet to break the 100k mark. This year will be a test. An average ski season, and some good advertising, should give them a sense as to what they can get.

...and EB-5 money is not free by any means. Those folks do expect some kind of payout eventually. It's like any other investment.

The bike traffic is a good point. That is a rapidly growing segment of the resort business.

My ASC comparison is more in terms of scale and rapid expansion than debt service.

 

[thetrailboss]

The bike traffic is a good point. That is a rapidly growing segment of the resort business.

My ASC comparison is more in terms of scale and rapid expansion than debt service.

The biking is a good way to round out Burke. I just wonder if they will have the revenue to run the operation after it is built. That begins to sound like one of ASC's problems...too big to manage for them.

 

[from_the_NEK]

From the latest LSC Newslinc article http://www.news7newslinc.net/index.php/around-the-nek/112-new-developments-across-the-nek:

Jay Peak just recently acquired Burke Mountain, and their big plans do not stop at snowmaking. Stenger also announced that a 108 million dollar investment (that figure includes snowmaking upgrades) will be made in Burke Mountain; that investment comes in the form of lodging on the mountain. Four new lodge style accomodations will be built in various areas on the mountain. Stenger said the four buildings will be "rustic, beautiful lodges that hold up to 1,250 people." The buildings will be modeled after the Tram Haus Lodge at Jay Peak, the style of the Tram Haus Lodge has a slopside cabin feel that blends with the atmopshere of the mountain. According to the press release two of these buildings will be located just below the mid-Burke detachable quad, a third will be built at the current site of the Mid-Burke Lodge, and the fourth is planned to sit at the base area near the Tamarack Grill. It is anticipated that the work will start in 2013, with a proposed completion by 2015.

So if they are building two hotels in the field below the Mid Burke Express Which is a logical place to build, it sounds like Camber Heights must have been officially wiped off the planning table. I wonder what happens to the several lots that were under contract? The thord building at Mid Burke will be a Lodge. I doubt they will put it exactly where the current Mid-Lodge is but rather shift it toward Lower Dipper like I have shown in my Google Earth renderings. The current position of the mid-lodge is terrible for skier traffic flow coming down to the lift.

A new Hotel at the base lodge, not terribly surprising. There isn't much room directly next to the lodge but there is a pretty good size chunk of land between the Sherburne Quad base and High Meadows Rd that has lots of potential.

 

[Masskier]

Well, Certainly a big day for the entire NEK and Burke. Just think, Burke is pretty much permitted and ready to go. It is almost shovel ready. This is so important for the local economy.

 

[riverc0il]

This is so important for Masskier's properties.

I jest but it is truth. Anyone that got in at Burke should see significant increases in values after this project kicks Burke into high gear. Stenger has gotten more done in a few months than Ginn got done in a few years and never finished.

But this whole "rustic" thing... c'mon. I like Jay's Tram Lodge. But it ain't rustic. :lol:

 

[snowmonster]

Looks like the Jay-Burke combo pass deserves a second look.

 

[snoseek]

Looks like the Jay-Burke combo pass deserves a second look.

No kidding right? It's tough to move away from the awesome times in Maine but once your in midwinter you would have no regrets.

I need to spend a summer or two up there, the riding is extra fun, town laid back.

 

[deadheadskier]

Looks like the Jay-Burke combo pass deserves a second look.

No kidding right? It's tough to move away from the awesome times in Maine but once your in midwinter you would have no regrets.

I need to spend a summer or two up there, the riding is extra fun, town laid back.

There's a lot of great things to be said about skiing in Maine. Boyne does an incredible job investing in the SR/SL product. They both are great areas and there's a certain vibe and sense of community among the SR and SL crowds that is very attractive. During the bad seasons, they kill it more than any operator in the east IMO and offer a huge amount of terrain under one pass.

but, if I were an advanced skier from Boston who has little interest in skiing groomers and was willing to drive 3.5-4.5 hours every weekend to ski; Burke/Jay wins easily.

At the basic level there's Burke and Sunday River both 3.5 hours from Boston. Burke gets 250 inches of snow a year, the River 150. Burke is a MUCH easier 3.5 drive. The there's Jay vs Sugarloaf. Jay gets 350 inches, Sugarloaf gets 225. Jay is an exponentially easier 4.5 hour drive from Boston than is Sugarloaf.

It's no wonder why Stenger is going off with the investment in the area especially considering how he's got 4 million potential customers in metro Montreal that are only 2 hours from Jay and 3 hours from Burke.

 

[from_the_NEK]

This number may have been been stated before in a different thread but Stenger was actually quoted yesterday as targeting 150,000 skier visits to Burke.

 

[Nick]

I have yet to ski the NEK .... most of my trips last year were day trips and the 9 hours driving for 9 hours skiing, particularly given the snow last year, was not happening, but I'm really hoping to make a weekend trip up to visit Jay this year.

 

[Nick]

PS: I left the Jay Peak / Burke AZ challenge open a bit longer in case anyone wants to squeak any more questions in to Steve Wright.

 

[AdironRider]

There's a lot of great things to be said about skiing in Maine. Boyne does an incredible job investing in the SR/SL product. They both are great areas and there's a certain vibe and sense of community among the SR and SL crowds that is very attractive. During the bad seasons, they kill it more than any operator in the east IMO and offer a huge amount of terrain under one pass.

but, if I were an advanced skier from Boston who has little interest in skiing groomers and was willing to drive 3.5-4.5 hours every weekend to ski; Burke/Jay wins easily.

At the basic level there's Burke and Sunday River both 3.5 hours from Boston. Burke gets 250 inches of snow a year, the River 150. Burke is a MUCH easier 3.5 drive. The there's Jay vs Sugarloaf. Jay gets 350 inches, Sugarloaf gets 225. Jay is an exponentially easier 4.5 hour drive from Boston than is Sugarloaf.

It's no wonder why Stenger is going off with the investment in the area especially considering how he's got 4 million potential customers in metro Montreal that are only 2 hours from Jay and 3 hours from Burke.

Like most of us, Im not a casual skier, but the easier drive argument always perplexes me. Maybe its just how Im wired, but 4.5 hours in a car is 4.5 hours in a car, no matter what type of road Im on.

I also fall into the gearhead category, so thats probably part of it.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I have yet to ski the NEK .... most of my trips last year were day trips and the 9 hours driving for 9 hours skiing, particularly given the snow last year, was not happening, but I'm really hoping to make a weekend trip up to visit Jay this year.

Well you're in luck because it is less than a 7 hour round trip from Uxbridge to Burke and back

 

[thetrailboss]

Like most of us, Im not a casual skier, but the easier drive argument always perplexes me. Maybe its just how Im wired, but 4.5 hours in a car is 4.5 hours in a car, no matter what type of road Im on.

I think they mean interstate driving versus two-lane back roads.