Big Burke announcement

[thetrailboss]

I hear you, but sit back and look at the numbers. 108 million. Thats a higher number than probably any ski resort in the Northeast is worth currently. Thats more than most Western resorts.

I get that biking is becoming more popular, but even with 150k skier visits and a rocking bike season, there is no way Burke is worth that alone. Im thinkg Jay and Burke combined would maybe be worth it if it all panned out.

$108 mill is a lot. But that also includes lots of infrastructure, etc. I imagine that they are putting other things in that amount too such as consulting, legal fees, etc. But yes, it is a lot. FWIW Ginn was going to invest something like that into Burke as well.

And Jay is going to be getting $178 million I believe.

 

[AdironRider]

$108 mill is a lot. But that also includes lots of infrastructure, etc. I imagine that they are putting other things in that amount too such as consulting, legal fees, etc. But yes, it is a lot. FWIW Ginn was going to invest something like that into Burke as well.

And Jay is going to be getting $178 million I believe.

True, a lot of it could probably be done in the terms of "maintenance" so to speak, ala yearly snowmaking upgrades or what have you, but its still a crapload of money, money that if it wasnt buying citizenship would be a horrible investment.

That party will end if results dont happen in some form. Did we ever answer what stipulations are tied to the jobs the program is supposed to create. If temp workers for constuction etc are qualifying, the NEK is going to enter a world of pain once that dries up.

 

[thetrailboss]

True, a lot of it could probably be done in the terms of "maintenance" so to speak, ala yearly snowmaking upgrades or what have you, but its still a crapload of money, money that if it wasnt buying citizenship would be a horrible investment.

That party will end if results dont happen in some form. Did we ever answer what stipulations are tied to the jobs the program is supposed to create. If temp workers for constuction etc are qualifying, the NEK is going to enter a world of pain once that dries up.

I imagine that the jobs criteria is pretty broad.

But remember that of the $500 million, a significant amount is going to establishing at least three tech companies that will have better paying jobs.

 

[thetrailboss]

Good video and more info on the mountain:

http://www.news7newslinc.net/index.php/around-the-nek/burke/116-what-will-burke-look-like

 

[Masskier]

They will get the return and more. I'm a gearhead also but on a Friday night in the dark after a full day at work and 2 kids in the back seat I am not in the mood to be "heel and toeing" it in the family cruiser. I want to get on the highway, set the cruise, get off the highway and be at my lodge in less than 1/2 an hour. Burke fits the bill.

The new HSQ makes Burke visable to a whole new group of skiers. Add in the Jay marketing machine and they will be at 150k visits in no time.

Agreed. I drive 2 miles get on the highway and set the cruise control, get off and drive 8 miles to the Mt. Doesn't get much easier than that.

The new owners understand that the reason Burke skier visits are so low is because they don't have a bed base. Some hotels/lodges will change that and the skier visits will grow.

 

[bigbog]

Like most of us, Im not a casual skier, but the easier drive argument always perplexes me. Maybe its just how Im wired, but 4.5 hours in a car is 4.5 hours in a car, no matter what type of road Im on.

We just love the mountains and powder/pp too much AR!
The great pricing of VT passes certainly make it affordable.

 

[deadheadskier]

Like I said Im a gearhead. I look forward to heel/toe downshifts. So thats most likely it.

I love my 6 speed manual transmission on twisty back roads as much as the next guy, but not every single weekend of a ski season, 7 hours round trip.

I hear you, but sit back and look at the numbers. 108 million. Thats a higher number than probably any ski resort in the Northeast is worth currently. Thats more than most Western resorts.

I get that biking is becoming more popular, but even with 150k skier visits and a rocking bike season, there is no way Burke is worth that alone. Im thinkg Jay and Burke combined would maybe be worth it if it all panned out.

Resorts don't invest that kind of money in hopes of getting it back at sale. I'd imagine a lot of that $108M will be flipped in real estate sales. For some perspective, while $108M for 150K skier visits seems like a ton of cash for not that much of a return, Stowe has spent in the neighborhood of $500M over the past 10 years which has grown their business very little. 2010-2011 was a great year and they only did 330K skier visits.

 

[stomachdoc]

Seems like they are on the right track here. Burke will never make it as a day-tripper mountain for Boston residents; it's too far and Loon and Waterville are an hour closer, but, with a good quality bed-base, you'll certainly get weekenders and longer-stayers.

 

[EPB]

Seems like they are on the right track here. Burke will never make it as a day-tripper mountain for Boston residents; it's too far and Loon and Waterville are an hour closer, but, with a good quality bed-base, you'll certainly get weekenders and longer-stayers.

I tend to agree. If you ask me, Burke can essentially go directly after the Sunday River market as both places are about 3 hours from Boston and don't have a full-fledged ski town like North Conway in close proximity to the mountain.

 

[steamboat1]

I wish them luck.

 

[Masskier]

Went to the informational meeting at the Tamarack today. The new owners were very specific about their snow making plans this year. If we have an average November temp wise, they are going to be very aggressive and hope to have lots of terrain open for 11/23. They said they will blow snow on the upper elevations when the temps hit the middle 20's anytime after Nov 1st. If we have average temps this year they plan to offer skiing form Nov 23 through mid April. They now have the technology, equipment and budget, and they plan on using it. It was really nice to hear how committed they are to Burke. In addition to the new 140+ tower guns, they now own a new compressor. In the past they had leased them and only had 60 days to use them. Now they can make snow anytime they desire.

 

[thetrailboss]

Went to the informational meeting at the Tamarack today. The new owners were very specific about their snow making plans this year. If we have an average November temp wise, they are going to be very aggressive and hope to have lots of terrain open for 11/23. They said they will blow snow on the upper elevations when the temps hit the middle 20's anytime after Nov 1st. If we have average temps this year they plan to offer skiing form Nov 23 through mid April. They now have the technology, equipment and budget, and they plan on using it. It was really nice to hear how committed they are to Burke. In addition to the new 140+ tower guns, they now own a new compressor. In the past they had leased them and only had 60 days to use them. Now they can make snow anytime they desire.

I hope that they make Burke the "trails skiing" resort and offer good snowmaking and the same good grooming in areas...and Jay the "powder/glades" mountain. I actually like Burke's woods better, but Burke's trails are much better than Jay's thanks to the topography. I'm glad to see that they got that the first thing that was needed was snowmaking...and more HKD guns up top and a new compressor. Yes, that will give them a big boost.

When folks who have been skiing the easier, manicured, blah cruisers from the Okemo/Sunapee/Strattons of the world, come and try Burke they will be very entertained. As long as they leave in the natural rolls and curves, Burke is a very entertaining trail skiing mountain.

 

[deadheadskier]

When folks who have been skiing the easier, manicured, blah cruisers from the Okemo/Sunapee/Strattons of the world, come and try Burke they will be very entertained. As long as they leave in the natural rolls and curves, Burke is a very entertaining trail skiing mountain.

Burke's groomers remind me of the groomers at Okemo in the 80s before the mountain became very popular and widened their trails to handle the crowds. Burke is a very similarly pitched mountain to Okemo. For the most part, outside of their glades, there's nothing steeper / more difficult at Burke than exists at Okemo. Stratton actually has much steeper trail terrain than exists at Burke. I hope an increase in popularity doesn't result in them having to "boulevard" their trails like Okemo, Stratton and Sunapee have had to.

 

[steamboat1]

Burke's groomers remind me of the groomers at Okemo in the 80s before the mountain became very popular and widened their trails to handle the crowds. Burke is a very similarly pitched mountain to Okemo. For the most part, outside of their glades, there's nothing steeper / more difficult at Burke than exists at Okemo. Stratton actually has much steeper trail terrain than exists at Burke. I hope an increase in popularity doesn't result in them having to "boulevard" their trails like Okemo, Stratton and Sunapee have had to.

You just talked me out of a trip over there.

 

[Smellytele]

Burke's groomers remind me of the groomers at Okemo in the 80s before the mountain became very popular and widened their trails to handle the crowds. Burke is a very similarly pitched mountain to Okemo. For the most part, outside of their glades, there's nothing steeper / more difficult at Burke than exists at Okemo. Stratton actually has much steeper trail terrain than exists at Burke. I hope an increase in popularity doesn't result in them having to "boulevard" their trails like Okemo, Stratton and Sunapee have had to.

I tend to disagree and believe the center trails are steeper than almost everything at Okemo. I do hope that they keep the trails with the same character.

 

[deadheadskier]

You just talked me out of a trip over there.

your loss. It's a great place to ski. While not very steep, they have a lot of groomers with good character, there's some killer glades, no crowds / liftlines. I love Burke.

I tend to disagree and believe the center trails are steeper than almost everything at Okemo. I do hope that they keep the trails with the same character.

I just see Burke as very much an intermediate pitched mountain. In terms of "expert" terrain you have Fox's with it's natural terrain features, which a place like Okemo doesn't have, but most of Burke's trail terrain is pretty mellow. There's a lot of character to their trails due to them being more narrow than most ski areas, but take that away (which I hope popularity doesn't do) and the terrain could become gentrified rather easily. Willoughby reminds me of Upper World Cup at Okemo, Warrens - Noreaster or Lower Wardance, Doug's - Chief. Those would be the middle trails at both areas and I think they're pretty comparable in pitch.

Burke's a great place, they just don't have much steep terrain on the map. It would appear the West Bowl area could offer some though. Hope to see that trail expansion someday.

 

[riverc0il]

Burke is a very similarly pitched mountain to Okemo. For the most part, outside of their glades, there's nothing steeper / more difficult at Burke than exists at Okemo. Stratton actually has much steeper trail terrain than exists at Burke.

Couldn't disagree more. Burke's blue squares ski a step up from most other mountains, especially Okemo and to a lesser extent Stratton as well.

 

[riverc0il]

Burke's a great place, they just don't have much steep terrain on the map. It would appear the West Bowl area could offer some though. Hope to see that trail expansion someday.

I think you are comparing blacks at other areas to blues at Burke. I agree Burke doesn't have anything super steep. It is a very consistently pitched mountain. But blues at Burke are often blacks at mountains like Okemo and Stratton. I think Big Dipper is likely steeper than most of the blacks at Okemo and Stratton. But it is true Burke doesn't have anything super steep.

 

[Masskier]

I think you are comparing blacks at other areas to blues at Burke. I agree Burke doesn't have anything super steep. It is a very consistently pitched mountain. But blues at Burke are often blacks at mountains like Okemo and Stratton. I think Big Dipper is likely steeper than most of the blacks at Okemo and Stratton. But it is true Burke doesn't have anything super steep.

Agreed, Many blues at Burke would be blacks at other ski areas.

 

[from_the_NEK]

your loss. It's a great place to ski. While not very steep, they have a lot of groomers with good character, there's some killer glades, no crowds / liftlines. I love Burke.

I just see Burke as very much an intermediate pitched mountain. In terms of "expert" terrain you have Fox's with it's natural terrain features, which a place like Okemo doesn't have, but most of Burke's trail terrain is pretty mellow. There's a lot of character to their trails due to them being more narrow than most ski areas, but take that away (which I hope popularity doesn't do) and the terrain could become gentrified rather easily. Willoughby reminds me of Upper World Cup at Okemo, Warrens - Noreaster or Lower Wardance, Doug's - Chief. Those would be the middle trails at both areas and I think they're pretty comparable in pitch.

Burke's a great place, they just don't have much steep terrain on the map. It would appear the West Bowl area could offer some though. Hope to see that trail expansion someday.

Have you skied at Burke since that rainy/crappy day that I skied with you a few years ago?
I would put Burke somewhere inbetween Sugarloaf and Okemo/Stratton in terms of steepness. Nothing at Burke matches the steepness of the upper mtn of Sugarloaf. Likewise nothing at Okemo or Stratton matches the steepness of the middle section of Burke (Willoughby, Ledges, Fox's Folly, Upper Warrens Way, Rerun, Dougs Drop, Upper Dipper, Wilderness). And two of those trails are Blues.
Additionally, IMHO skiing Burke is much more interesting that skiing any of the three other mtns I have listed in this post (granted Sugarloaf was a sheet of ice last time I was there).