Big Burke announcement

[thetrailboss]

Yep Burke has more purists then Stowe or Sugabush.

Are you serious?

How would you know if you haven't skied at Burke?

And yes, I'm serious. The market that Burke is going after is different than Stowe's by far in my mind. I would think that Sugarbush might lose some skiers because the Burke/Jay combo offers a good product to the serious skier who doesn't want or need the frills. Sugarbush already gets most of the local market in central Vermont who make a good income and are serious skiers, but can't afford Stowe.

I'd say that Burke is also looking to Canada now that they are packaged with Jay. Until they get more beds, I'd say the Boston and NYC markets are out...and when the beds come, they'd target the folks in their 20's and 30's who want a ski experience that is not the resort experience, but the back to nature experience...and the same folks who are hard core bikers in the summer.

 

[kingdom-tele]

a resort thats not a resort.
wealthy people who dislike frills.
looking for people who can't afford stowe but will spend the same amount in gas to get to a non resort with no frills and less 'expert' terrain.

what could go wrong with that?

 

[thetrailboss]

a resort thats not a resort.
wealthy people who dislike frills.
looking for people who can't afford stowe but will spend the same amount in gas to get to a non resort with no frills and less 'expert' terrain.

what could go wrong with that?

Well, the other option is that the place could be on NELSAP. We know that you don't like what Bill Stenger has done with Jay, but if anyone is going to make Burke survive, Bill is the guy. And I also can predict that you are probably not happy with the big plan he has rolled out, but the NEK needs good jobs and give young people a reason to stay there and the chance to survive.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I'm confused, what purity level am I at again.

I want to know if I should be expecting a personal visit from Bill S at my house trying to get me to go to Burke or if I should stick my nose up and buy a family pass to Stowe. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!

 

[from_the_NEK]

BTW it is late in the day at work, and I haven't seen the sun in a week, so I'm getting a little punchy

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm confused, what purity level am I at again.

I want to know if I should be expecting a personal visit from Bill S at my house trying to get me to go to Burke or if I should stick my nose up and buy a family pass to Stowe. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!

I can't believe you have to ask. You are literally the POSTER CHILD for Burke Mountain!

 

[from_the_NEK]

Where did you find that? :lol::lol::lol:

 

[thetrailboss]

Where did you find that? :lol::lol::lol:

Amazing what Google can find......

 

[kingdom-tele]

Well, the other option is that the place could be on NELSAP. We know that you don't like what Bill Stenger has done with Jay, but if anyone is going to make Burke survive, Bill is the guy. And I also can predict that you are probably not happy with the big plan he has rolled out, but the NEK needs good jobs and give young people a reason to stay there and the chance to survive.

spare me your predicitve skills.

I just find the irony hard to ignore. A place that attracts people because of it's "rusticness" needs to be a lot less "rustic" to attract people who can pay for less "rusticness" in a rustic region.

When are you moving back? Before or after the Renaissance begins.

 

[AdironRider]

Like Old Faithful, you can count on Kingdom being against anything different in the NEK.

Keep on keepin on I suppose. Im not a huge fan of this development, but theres a certain "curmudgeon" attribute of Kingdom that make me want to be for it.

 

[thetrailboss]

Like Old Faithful, you can count on Kingdom being against anything different in the NEK.

+ 1.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Like Old Faithful, you can count on Kingdom being against anything different in the NEK.

Keep on keepin on I suppose. Im not a huge fan of this development, but theres a certain "curmudgeon" attribute of Kingdom that make me want to be for it.

anything?

Be for it. I never said I wasn't.

The addition of jobs to Newport will be great, maybe it will spare my sister in law from totalling another car on a moose in eden while she drives back and forth to IBM. I hope she can get a similar wage job 5 miles from her house. Who knows, maybe multi million dollar conference center will help me realiize my dream of running a burrito cart for all the people having conferences. But, maybe, just maybe, 10 thousand people don't really want to move a such a backward community as the NEK, I mean hell, can't even find decent food in the grocery around here. I can only imagine there are hundreds, if not thousands of local kids who moved away just waiting for their chance at part time/minimum wage jobs. I digress. Maybe I am a curmudgeon, sorry it bothers you fellas so much, just getting tired of the rhetoric from people with money lined pants telling everyone how great things will be once we can make more money, charge more money, attract people with money, as if that is the only way to make something sustainable or worse yet, sell as soulful.

/curmudgeon blog

 

[riverc0il]

There's nothing at Burke like Goat or Star at Stowe, Upper FIS or Steins at Sugarbush; Chute or Paradise at MRG; Ovation or Outer Limits at Killington; Face Chutes at Jay etc. That's what I'm saying. Great consistent pitch, but nothing on their map is in the conversation of top maybe 30+ steepest trails in the east. It's a great mountain for advanced terrain, but it's expert terrain pitches doesn't go much beyond what you can find at Okemo or Stratton.

If you all want to get out your protractors, topozone or google earth maps and prove me wrong, go for it.

Agreed on all points here. I think it was more how you said it rather than what you said that some of us took issue with.

 

[riverc0il]

same purists, just fewer of them. need more purists. preferably with less less income.

What does being a purist have to do with income? :-?:-o

 

[kingdom-tele]

no idea. burke is apparently for purists and those with less income. it was on the verge of going NELSAP as it was. hence, need more of either.

 

[steamboat1]

What does being a purist have to do with income? :-?:-o

Well they can't be a purist if they can afford to ski Stowe & Sugarbush.

At least that's the way I interpret it from Snowbird man.

I heard the purists ski at Alta out that way, but what do I know?

Do purists go in the water park at Jay since Jay is a purist mountain.

Doubt it since they're a no frills crowd with no money.

Jay's losing the purist market share.

They're now moving into the silo at the base of Sugarbush.

 

[AdironRider]

Well they can't be a purist if they can afford to ski Stowe & Sugarbush.

At least that's the way I interpret it from Snowbird man.

I heard the purists ski at Alta out that way, but what do I know?

Do purists go in the water park at Jay since Jay is a purist mountain.

Doubt it since they're a no frills crowd with no money.

Jay's losing the purist market share.

They're now moving into the silo at the base of Sugarbush.

To argue the purists wont go to a place with a waterpark and surmise they now hang out at Mascara Mountain is pretty funny.

 

[thetrailboss]

To argue the purists wont go to a place with a waterpark and surmise they now hang out at Mascara Mountain is pretty funny.

Exactly. My point being that folks go to Stowe because of the aura of Stowe and to see and be seen. Sugarbush used to be that way and now is making a comeback to some extent. These two areas are established resorts. Burke is a ski area and Stenger's goal is to get the volume up to 150k skier days, not the same level as Sugarbush or Stowe. Unless a hell of a lot changes, the resort crowd is not going to be at Burke. So the folks who don't spend $2,000 a night on a hotel room and generally don't ski hard are not coming; folks who spend, say, $150 a night on a room and are there to ski hard and play hard will come. Hence, the folks who have some disposable income, but are focused on biking or skiing rather than other activities.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Exactly. My point being that folks go to Stowe because of the aura of Stowe and to see and be seen. Sugarbush used to be that way and now is making a comeback to some extent. These two areas are established resorts. Burke is a ski area and Stenger's goal is to get the volume up to 150k skier days, not the same level as Sugarbush or Stowe. Unless a hell of a lot changes, the resort crowd is not going to be at Burke. So the folks who don't spend $2,000 a night on a hotel room and generally don't ski hard are not coming; folks who spend, say, $150 a night on a room and are there to ski hard and play hard will come. Hence, the folks who have some disposable income, but are focused on biking or skiing rather than other activities.

150K skiers isn't a big change?

Having to inflate costs to support running 100+ million in infrastructure isn't a big change?

how many "purists" are looking forward to standing in line for 20 minutes to take a 90sec run down a skied out dippers?

 

[AdironRider]

150K skiers isn't a big change?

Having to inflate costs to support running 100+ million in infrastructure isn't a big change?

how many "purists" are looking forward to standing in line for 20 minutes to take a 90sec run down a skied out dippers?

I hear you on the infastructure comment, thats my cause for concern with this whole development. 1250 beds is going to cost a couple mill a year just to keep the buildings in decent shape, plus labor etc.

But you lose arguments with hyperbole of 20 minute liftlines. 150K skier visits is not going automatically result in Killington level crowding. Thats never going to happen in the NEK.

JHole does at least double the target of Burke, and there are only two ways up realistically from the base. We dont see lines that long pretty much ever, outside of an epic (for our out here were talking two feet plus overnight) pow day during Christmas week.