Bretton Woods Closed??!!

[millerm277]

@AdironRider, you are right...but, I prefer they spend money blowing snow to melt late season, rather than spend money blowing snow to melt early season.

Why? Because soft>ice, and if it's going to melt anyway sun and warm>overcast and 33

 

[Vortex]

I gave BW alot of positive props last year for keeping the lifts going. I would have done so this year and bought tickets for my family to make the trek a few more times. They also made and effort to work with us and keep us informed on what was up.

When I bought a place near loon they opened up around Nov 11th and extended the season when the snow stayed. Those things have changed. The lift lines seemed manageable and not that important cause the value and length of the season.

The only thing that remains constant for me is SR. The have kept the focus the same. Open as early as possible and stay open as late as reasonable. Yes it has become a smaller window. I think the weather patterns have had some effect, not all but some.

Make snow, groom and even listen upon occasion. Ie (you can sound off on the message board within reason and get and answer or even influence change.) Last year they took a hit for the early closure. I think they learned from it. The people there make the difference. With or without ASC the River folk make it happen. The River almost is able to overcome the ASC stigma.

darent. I drive 1.5 to get to Loon. My ride next year to the River will be 3 hours.

Some good points on many sides here. Perspectives of single day skiers and every weekenders are quite different. They need us both.

 

[ckofer]

The only season pass that I've ever had is a night one to Gunstock (40 min from home). I had a love/hate relationship with it. There's a clear agony at the end of the season as you try to optimize its value.

I'd like to see ski areas sell blocks of transferrable passes in the pre-season at a discount. Let's say you get 20% off for a 10-pack of anytime passes. This would still raise money for them early and the rest is up to you.

 

[Vortex]

Chris skinh kind of does somethign like that. www.skinh.com You probably have looked at those before.

 

[snoseek]

The only season pass that I've ever had is a night one to Gunstock (40 min from home). I had a love/hate relationship with it. There's a clear agony at the end of the season as you try to optimize its value.

I'd like to see ski areas sell blocks of transferrable passes in the pre-season at a discount. Let's say you get 20% off for a 10-pack of anytime passes. This would still raise money for them early and the rest is up to you.

i know it's a haul but... saddleback sells books of 10 transferable days for 250. good supplement to a season pass.

 

[MadPadraic]

Theres a limited market, I think its unfair to expect every area to try and stay open till the last flake melts. More money saved now, means more for improvements and the majority of next season, Im willing to sacrifice a day of spring skiing, for a bit more snowmaking come Nov early December when we really need it.

There certainly is a limited market, but BW was playing to it, which as previously discussed, relates to pass sales to members of this board. As far as your agrument for Nov or early Dec vs. Spring, thats a pretty hard sell as far as I'm concerned. I'm dieing for some riding by September, but I haven't yet fully adapted to hardpack. Right now, I'm sitting here very happy with this Spring, but memories of a december broken bone. At the moment I'd happily trade a a "crappy," thin, soft spring day for a man made hardpack day next december.

Wildcat and Sunapee are still open in NH, and Loon, BW's biggest competitor, was open last week just like BW. Point SoS/MagicCat combo, honorable mention to threedom.

It's actually kind of funny that the much derided Okemo and Sunapee are still open while attitash, threedom, and crotched are closed. (But sneaux is hanging on for weekends).

 

[Vortex]

The season got off to a late start if we all look back. Some areas have closed at the normal or even earlier dates than in the past.

Loon use to open around Nov11th (yes weather issues, but attempts were made) This year they opened 2nd weekend in Dec I think. BW closed 2 weeks earlier than last year.

Props to Sunapee and Wildcat for staying open cause of the snow.

I could cut some slack if there was not enough snow. As a pass holder plenty of snow and not being open has made be change where I will ski in the future with my family.

The River has won my business. I remember nights in Nov where they made snow for a few hours at a time to get open for Turkey Day weekend. I stayed at the Grand summit. Place was empty, but they made the effort. Last two weekends aurora and Jordan opened up again. Crowds were not huge. My point is I buy a passes related to resort attempt to keep it going.

Not alot but Booth Creek lost a family that buys passes and is in the seasonal programs and bought food and all the other resort items that are what keep it going. So length of season and passes matter to some. Its the Value of the process.

 

[stomachdoc]

For almost all of the resorts, I would imagine the decision on how long to stay open is made even before the season starts in the fall, and is probably predicated on historic visit trends, snow patterns, etc. For instance, Waterville usually opens a week or so before Loon because it has a higher elevation, but Loon stays open a week or so after WV because Loon is a more popular mountain. That being said, food service workers, ski patrollers, health clinic staff, lifties (many of whom are from South Africa and have to leave by a certain date) are contracted only through a certain date, which means that the mountain can't actually operate past that date. Insurance policies may also be issued on a time-limited basis.

In a year like this, where the best snow didn't appear 'til the latter part of the season and the early season was, well, "suboptimal," a predictive model where the season essentially ends at the end of March didn't work, but if you look historically over a 10 year period, the model that most resorts use really does make sense. Most of the time, in mid-April, the kids are playing soccer on the weekends and the allure of driving up to ski on a couple of remaining slush-ribbons isn't that strong.

But yes, places like SR that are able to keep it together and keep operating past a planned stop date are great to have. But I guarantee that, if extending the season turns out to be a money loser and it puts a strain on the overall operating budget, some bean counter will put an end to it for future seasons.

 

[andyzee]

Im willing to sacrifice a day of spring skiing, .

Blasphamy!! :smash:

 

[Vortex]

Doc I always value your opinion and we have had a somewhat similar involvement with Booth creek(Thanks for WV info recently) You can guess what my descion was. Still Thank you.

The die hards are the ones whom early and late matters to. I feel I will be heard better elsewhere. (If Loon had not spiked the prices I probably would have just kept buying two passes and traveling to the River 20 times a year) I was really tired of paying $ 329 to get a place to park for my wife as well.

 

[stomachdoc]

I have to say that the Loon price increase is pretty staggering; thankfully they didn't hit Waterville or Cranmore skiers with that otherwise I would be following you up to Sunday River. It should be an interesting couple of years for the Booth Creek resorts as the ownership situation has changed in a rather nebulous way. At this point, Booth Creek only truly still owns Waterville and Cranmore, and is leasing Loon and the Western Resorts from the actual new owners. The speculation at Waterville is that WV wasn't sold to the new principals because it is pretty much just a break even proposition (in a good year) from an operational standpoint and, of course, has no developable on-mountain real estate. So, perhaps now Booth Creek will put capital into their two remaining resorts, Waterville and Cranmore, or (perhaps more likely) BC will seek buyers for those properties.

My wife murmurs about selling our place at WV within the next couple of years and getting a place on Newfound or Winnepesaukee, but I think I'll have to leave the Doctoring business and enter the Hedge Fund business for that to happen.

 

[Vortex]

We looked at waterfront stuff trying to find a happy medium for a while. Just could not get what we wanted for a price we could afford. Imagie that.

I heard that Waterville and Cranmore were not sold in the deal to offer some Collateral (SP) for the sale.

Don't want to be negitive, but any money going into these resorts I see will be in Loons' infrastructure.
Land deals are not as availible at WV slope side (National forest land) not going to see condo's there.. ( I'll sell you my waterfall condo so it will seem like water front. lol)