Cost of Learning to Ski

[riverc0il]

Summary: Any one know of a better learn to ski package than Ski NEK Style at Burke? $15 for Sunday afternoons lift/lesson/rental (also $15 for significant other who will have fun during the lesson but doing some skiing with the SO after the lesson, not to be selfish but having some fun during her lesson would be nice and it would also be nice to actually get my monies worth rather than spending $60 to ski a few hours of intermediate groomers).

Long drawn out thoughts regarding specific deals and rambles about the prospect of finding good learn to ski options for someone else:

Well, after years of never having to consider the finances of learning to ski, it now enters the equation. My passion for skiing and outdoor winter activities is contagious as my significant other has gone from a winter hater (but the snow looks pretty on trees) to a winter lover "OMG I WANT TO SKI!" type person. She now has the money and the time and we are looking to get started. One of the most important issues has already been solved and that is warm clothing. She tried to learn to ski once when she was a kid and had a horrible experience. Good quality base layers, warm outerwear, quality gear that will keep her warm from head to toe.

Now where to ski? Holy crap learning to ski is just way too expensive. No wonder this sport is struggling. Also, very hard to find a concise first timers guide on most ski area web sites. The industry as a whole is failing itself in this area. Are mid- to large mountains assuming that the feeder areas are still handling most of the "never evers?" Gunstock has a good page and deal for first timers:
http://www.gunstock.com/lessons/magic/

Too bad that package is not available for night skiing. The issue I will be trying to work around is getting her into the sport without sacrificing too much on hill time for myself so night skiing becomes the best way to introduce the sport, IMO. It is also generally the cheapest with Gunstock offering $25 Wednesday night lift/rentals and $30 Saturday night lift/rentals and Pat's offering $32 Saturday night lift/rentals with "tips" in the "Beginner" area (doubtful there is more instructor assisting a few dozen skiers, any first hand experience on what "tips" means?). Toss in a $30 lesson and a first time skier is paying big mountain lift ticket pricing for a few hours on a frigging magic carpet or handle tow. And that is a good deal!!!

Tenney has $50 for lift/lesson/rental. That is respectable, IMO, but still not a great value for a someone on their first day and only using a surface lift for a few hours. This same package at Crotched costs $70. $57 at Cannon for the Brookside area with lift/lesson/rental is quite a step up from Tenney with a chairlift for only $7 more and well under Crotched. That option works well for more with a mountain I can appreciate during lesson time and I get discounted tickets through work. By far the cheapest option, and could be done together on a weekend without me feeling like I was throwing away $60 to ski a crappy hill with the S/O for a hour or two.

There is the rub... the financial hit not only effects the first timer but also the person bringing the first timer to the hill. I think ski areas are missing a huge opportunity here. First, there needs to be half day ticket pricing. Beginners are not skiing more than a few hours unless they are dedicated to the cause or sadists. Advanced skiers are likely going to want to get the first timer into a lesson, ski a few runs, then partner up with the newbie for a few runs together on the bunny slope. Gunstock and Pat's have a good thing going with offering multiple things including tubing and bonfire in the case of Gunstock on the cheap on certain nights. Other wise, it would be about $120 for two people to ski an evening with one person getting the leason/rental/lift package, which to me is outrageous. There is little value in that other than thinking long term, break the bank now, and then things get better value wise down the road.

If you can commit to one mountain, Wildcat has a good deal with the $199 First Tracks Season Pass involving four two hour lessons with lift and rental. That is a solid deal. Burke you can ski the J bar for free on Sunday afternoons with lift/lesson/rental for just $15. That puts a pair of skiers on the mountain for four hours for just $30 with a lesson/rental package for the first timer with a beginner area with a high speed quad. Not sure I am going to find a better deal than that, but I am open to suggestions.

For me it comes down to this: first timers are using magic carpets and surface lifts for only a few hours. They are almost guaranteed to not be coming to the ski area alone. The costs of running a magic carpet or never ever surface lift are pretty low. Beginner rental gear is dirt cheap and gets recycled for several seasons. The major cost here is the lesson and associated labor costs of moving a beginner through the cycle of people that assist them. What is a fair price for the first time skier for a few hours of on hill time and enough instruction to get them turning, stopping, and hopefully having fun? I would think most people would be loyal to learning and progressing with the same mountain if they had a great first experience. Considering they get at least one other full time lift ticket and perhaps some food money, $35-45 seems about right to me. That ensures the average ski area would take away $100 for a couple. Step up to the beginner lift, crank it up $10. Step up to the intermediate lift, crank it up another $10.

One thought I have had is immediately after the beginner lessons are done, we are moving towards purchasing gear ASAP. Rental equipment for first timers is acceptable loss because you don't know if someone will stick with the activity. Once a decision and dedication to the activity has been made, $200-300 for a lower intermediate package is a total no brainer compared to $30 a pop for rentals.

 

[deadheadskier]

Doubt there's anything better


My question is, can you pay the $15, skip the rentals and the lessons and just ski :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

Follow up thoughts regarding the very first "never ever" experience. Probably best to consider quality of experience and instruction most on the first time. So money kind of becomes irrelevant for that first time out if the experience is justifies the price. So for a first time, where would you go, and then the above comments probably become more relevant for the next few days out.

 

[deadheadskier]

Doesn't Sunday River have some sort of learn to ski guarantee?

 

[BeanoNYC]

That's a good deal.

My wife likes the deal at stowe. Morning lesson, afternoon lesson, spruce ticket ....somewhere around $100. I meet her for lunch...make some turns on spruce, then she's off to her next lesson.

 

[billski]

Welcome to the real world! Wait until you have kids, the problem magnifies itself greatly. My problem was x4. That's why I'm so obsessed with finding discounts.

General principles I follow:
1. Take advantage of feeder hills. You don't need 2000' of vertical or a spacious lodge or good parking to learn how to ski. That stuff comes later. (The family stays in Stowe but skis and Bolton. The kids first learned at Nashoba for the first 2-4 lessons.) Why waste money on vertical you won't use?
2. Group lessons ain't that bad if you're clever and select times and dates when there aren't likely to be many participants.
3. Consider midweek or women's only programs. They are out there.
4. For an adult, consider purchase of rental program gear. You were going to rent anyways, weren't you? And your boot size won't change for a while. Unless she advances very rapidly, you'll be skid turning for quite a while. Sorry.
5. Consider ski club lesson programs or ski resort programs organized in the fall. Sometimes a set of 6 lessons is a good deal, even if you only get to three of the lessons due to schedule conflicts, etc.
6. I hope you don't try to teach her yourself to save money. I ran a decent sized ski club for several years and saw many, many ruined relationships because of that.
7. In the east, the come-along incentives only exist for 5th (and 6th) grade program at SkiNH and SkiVT. The industry wants to invest in young. Lots of luck finding something for the adult come-along. the west US has more interesting programs.

Success come with great patience (and spent time) on your part, and attention to keeping them happy and comfortable (bring heater pads, take a lot of breaks, stop when they want to stop. It's very frustrating for an advanced skier.) Never push them unless they are an 10-year old boy (who has a propensity for such things.) It's no fun falling and hurting all day.


check this out:
http://www.skinh.com/learntoski.cfm

p.s., I am sure you know that 90% of first timers never come back.

 

[billski]

and one more thing - why buy a full mountain ticket for yourself? You ever consider trying something new yourself? How about a board lesson for you at the same time as her? I got a first-timer package for myself that way....

 

[Mildcat]

My sister asked me to check out the prices for her daughter to learn to snowboard. I'm going to sound like an old man now but I remember in the late 80's early 90's NH always had dirt cheap or free lessons and beginner area lift tickets for first timers. Now the prices seem kind of high. Whatever happened to getting people hooked first then getting their money?

 

[billski]

My sister asked me to check out the prices for her daughter to learn to snowboard. I'm going to sound like an old man now but I remember in the late 80's early 90's NH always had dirt cheap or free lessons and beginner area lift tickets for first timers. Now the prices seem kind of high. Whatever happened to getting people hooked first then getting their money?

Yessir, I remember that too. Cost me $30 for six lessons, $30 for six weeks of rentals. The modus operandi today seems to be "just soak the rich, they're gonna come anyways"
I've screamed for years about having programs to get you "addicted" (like this group, which some rainy days needs a therapy group it seems, me included).
Resort's aren't stupid -they're following the money. Skiing's expensive and getting moreso. But people don't want to/can't troll for discounts. Dunno why. I do my own little part for our ski club to leverage discounts. The problem is also that people seem to have too little time to ski, to look for discounts, etc. The sport has gotten too gentrified.

 

[billski]

My sister asked me to check out the prices for her daughter to learn to snowboard. I'm going to sound like an old man now but I remember in the late 80's early 90's NH always had dirt cheap or free lessons and beginner area lift tickets for first timers. Now the prices seem kind of high. Whatever happened to getting people hooked first then getting their money?

What grade is her daughter in. NH and VT have programs for 5th and 6th graders where the first few lesson/lift is essentially free. The accompanying adult gets a break on a lift, lesson, rentals, etc. also. They have NO BLACKOUT DATES. I've got them both in my pocket right now.

Actually, many states across the US have these programs. I know, it's narrow-minded, but heh, it's a deal.

 

[ckofer]

and one more thing - why buy a full mountain ticket for yourself? You ever consider trying something new yourself? How about a board lesson for you at the same time as her? I got a first-timer package for myself that way....

I second that idea - it will let you realize how challenging a new sport is.

 

[Mildcat]

She's 13 and her younger brother is 8. He'll probably want to learn too. I'll just suggest to my sister to stay local. That way they'll at least save the gas money. Probably Wachusetts, Nashoba, or Blue Hills. Too bad Klein Innsbruck went the way of NELSAP. That was only a few miles from their house.

Does anyone know if ski shops sell discounted learn to ski/board packages?

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I skied for the first time when I was 9 and in 4th grade with my dad at Big Boulder PA. I didn't get into skiing until I was in 6th grade with my middle school ski club. The cost for a beginner lift ticket, lesson, and rental was 21 bucks. Lift and rental was 19 bucks,...and just an evening lift ticket at the group rate was $14 and that included the transportation which was most likely subsidized by the school district. Although it was 17 years ago..those prices were pretty reasonable..little ski areas are the best places for new skiers and riders..because they can ski most of the mountain. At a place like Killington there's maybe 2 runs a beginner can take from the top of the gondola so it's a waste of money to learn there. Blue mountain was probably teaching 300 people how to ski today..out of those..maybe 40 will become life time participants..as the rate is about 15%..good stuff..

 

[billski]

Does anyone know if ski shops sell discounted learn to ski/board packages?

I've never seen it advertised, but the shops sell discount lift tickets too and they don't advertise them either. I would pick up the phone and ask. These guys all have connections with the resorts: if they don't have something I'm sure you could get them to invent one, especially if you're planning on buying something from the ski shop.

 

[billski]

Another thing to keep in mind, most lessons are of good quality, PSIA certified and trained instructors. And resort size does not matter. It's the instructor who matters. You can get just as good a lesson for $50 as you can for $70 dollars (I'm making up numbers to make a point.)

Here's another sacrilegious idea. Ask your question over at EPICSKI.com. There are a lot of PSIA instructors over there. They know the programs. It's in their best interest to help you, plus they love the sport.

 

[riverc0il]

Thanks for the comments. Nothing really new to me but let's keep this thread rolling in case other folks need some ideas. I think I am likely going to go with a combo of the Gunstock and Pat's deals for evening skiing and then Cannon and Burke options once the basics have been nailed down.

Rivercoil, you mentioned Wildcat as an option. (I haven't been there yet, but I see the terrain from the road and it calls to me, but I digress....) Might I suggest that you look elsewhere for a first lesson/season? The terrain there is not what anyone would call flat. Flat is what she will need. (Maybe I am missing something here, they might actually have a great flat area.)

Wildcat does have a beginner triple chair but nothing really adequete for the first time never ever (magic carpet or handle tow really should kick things off before someone boards a chairlift). Was more mentioning Wildcat as it is a good deal with the season pass and $50 for four days with rentals and long lesson. Probably would have a beginner skiing Polecat by the fourth lesson. But Wildcat is not ideal for numerous reasons.

I haven't skiied as many mountains as you have. But I don't think anyone can miss with Sunday River.

Gotta disagree there. Expensive and crowded and a hour and half drive. Not a good option for us.

Welcome to the real world! Wait until you have kids, the problem magnifies itself greatly. My problem was x4. That's why I'm so obsessed with finding discounts.

No worries there, we are not having kids.

General principles I follow:
1. Take advantage of feeder hills. You don't need 2000' of vertical or a spacious lodge or good parking to learn how to ski. That stuff comes later. (The family stays in Stowe but skis and Bolton. The kids first learned at Nashoba for the first 2-4 lessons.) Why waste money on vertical you won't use?
2. Group lessons ain't that bad if you're clever and select times and dates when there aren't likely to be many participants.
3. Consider midweek or women's only programs. They are out there.
4. For an adult, consider purchase of rental program gear. You were going to rent anyways, weren't you? And your boot size won't change for a while. Unless she advances very rapidly, you'll be skid turning for quite a while. Sorry.
5. Consider ski club lesson programs or ski resort programs organized in the fall. Sometimes a set of 6 lessons is a good deal, even if you only get to three of the lessons due to schedule conflicts, etc.
6. I hope you don't try to teach her yourself to save money. I ran a decent sized ski club for several years and saw many, many ruined relationships because of that.
7. In the east, the come-along incentives only exist for 5th (and 6th) grade program at SkiNH and SkiVT. The industry wants to invest in young. Lots of luck finding something for the adult come-along. the west US has more interesting programs.

I am a big believer in feeder hills. Not many of those in this area though. Pat's and Gunstock are strong considerations and are on the larger side for feeder hills. Ragged and Crotched were both ruled out due to expense. That place down in Concord could be a viable option, McIntyre's I believe, which I completely forgot about.

We are going for group lessons for sure. No justification for individual lessons at that level (perhaps any level considering the price). Mid-week women's programs are normally during the day, this is a weekend and evening only endevour and women's programs do not seem to be offered during these times. We are looking for rental gear first but no need to purchase rental gear when end of season deals on new lower intermediate could be had for little more than beat up used options, especially low level rental gear which gets lots of years use and trashed pretty bad. New boots for sure any ways, we are going for comfort. Definitely no teaching from myself. Pointers if requested but I will let the pros do the teaching.[/QUOTE]

and one more thing - why buy a full mountain ticket for yourself? You ever consider trying something new yourself? How about a board lesson for you at the same time as her? I got a first-timer package for myself that way....

I have no desire in learning another form of sliding. I would rather sit in the pub with a beverage for an hour or two during the first few lessons.

Another thing to keep in mind, most lessons are of good quality, PSIA certified and trained instructors. And resort size does not matter. It's the instructor who matters. You can get just as good a lesson for $50 as you can for $70 dollars (I'm making up numbers to make a point.)

Here's another sacrilegious idea. Ask your question over at EPICSKI.com. There are a lot of PSIA instructors over there. They know the programs. It's in their best interest to help you, plus they love the sport.

More looking for local knowledge here than general info on programs. I may have never tried to assist someone else with learning the activity, but I know enough about the industry to understand what is most important for a first time learner. I am mostly concerned with bang for the buck, convenience, and trying to find a location with options that we can both have some fun. Proximity is important too, I am not going to drive much over an hour for a learn to ski program. I think I have a good fix on a direction, which probably will involve taking more time away from the mountains that I love than I would prefer, but I am still baffled by the prices and lack of good options.

 

[aoneil]

I seem to have gone about everything the wrong way.

When I was stationed in Denver I just went skiing one weekend. I'd done cross country a couple of times in gym class when there was too much snow to do anything else, and I'd roller skated and ice skated since I was a little kid.

I remember my first run - the lift ride was scary and I was worrying I'd fall before I got on the chair. I fell right after I got off the little slope from where the chair unloaded and had a hell of a time getting back up. My friend showed me snowplow and then I was off - scared to death I was going to fall. I remember not falling and thinking how much it felt like skating with extra sticking out the ends.

I went maybe eight times over my years in Colorado and New Mexico and then didn't go for many years (I lived in Oklahoma at the government's behest for far too long). When I moved back "home" I thought about going but didn't. This year, I got it in my head I'd start skiing again. I almost tried snowboarding, but my aging body rebelled against the thought of falling down a lot (I never even had to fall down a lot when I learned to ski, I've been spoiled). I bought a season pass during the fall for Wachusett and resolved to go as many times as I needed to have the pass "pay for itself." I rented skis the first time, then ordered a pair of snow boards (little skis, some people call them snow blades, but that's like calling inline skates "rollerblades").

I suppose my point is when I got my Head Shape skis, I was barely able to handle the blue runs at Wa (I wasn't great, but I didn't fall down). I'm not a huge sports person, but I seem to have some skills that transferred (growing up in the time of roller skating in the 80's and all those hours at the rink). But the short, fat skis are everything they say - I went down a black diamond run on my second afternoon with my boards, and now I'm there as often as I can get away. My season pass (a bronze pass) is well past paying for itself at this point, and I'm considering what kind of trips I can get up to up north and maybe back to Colorado next year.

For someone new to skiing, I'd really suggest trying a pair of ski boards. Of course, that gets into the whole sticky issue of buy vs. rent because some shops carry the "snow blades" (Salomon) but not many of them. I'm also not sure how it's going to work with the nasty habits I've probably picked when I finally take some lessons (I'm going to take some of those "makeover" lessons to teach me the things i haven't picked up yet on my own and probably get rid of something I'm doing wrong).

Wachusett has those "Learn to Turn" packages that look like a good deal for a newbie. I was talking to a guy on the lift last week who had done that and was doing pretty well for someone who was on their first year skiing (and not some young kid, either). He'd graduated to buying his own skis just recently, and looked like he had great form.

Personally, I think more people should consider the ski board as a way to get beginners enjoying that "first experience" and keep them coming back. The snobbery about the short ski (hey, they're only 94cm but I love them) is funny when you're zipping down the hill and laughing all the way, but how many people say to hell with it and never get to that point? I went back to the bunny slope while the other ski lifts weren't running for a bit last night (what a great night for skiing, though!) and remembered how flat it was. Of course, I took advantage of the flat and taught myself how to do turns in circles down the slope and get comfortable skiing backward a bit more.

Good luck on the learning for all - and remind the beginners how much fun it is when you get the hang of it!

 

[Hawkshot99]

Does anyone know if ski shops sell discounted learn to ski/board packages?

Some do. Last year my shop had a deal with Hunter. I believe it was $30 for lesson/rental/Lower lift ticket. Unfortunately, we sold very few, and don't have them this year.

So call the shops and see what they have.

 

[Mildcat]

Some do. Last year my shop had a deal with Hunter. I believe it was $30 for lesson/rental/Lower lift ticket. Unfortunately, we sold very few, and don't have them this year.

So call the shops and see what they have.

Wow that is cheap. I have to stop by a shop to book a trip today before work so I'll ask what they have.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Wow that is cheap. I have to stop by a shop to book a trip today before work so I'll ask what they have.

The entire point of it was to make it real enticing for the beginner to try, and get them hooked. Too bad not many sold so they dont exist anymore.