COVID concerns in the Northeast

[Not Sure]

" Pretty detailed plans " They did a great job with H1N1 right ? A disaster by there own admission . So much for Politics . A one size fits all policy for this mess isn't a viable answer given population density differences . What works in NY city doesn't make sense in Dakotas .

"No mask" , " Where masks" , " Where two masks" . Same guy different leader LOL

So many downstream deaths are occurring ,depression , suicide, I'm sure there will be many books written . Fortunately for me I have worked through this mess but I have friends that own restaurants that will never recover, the shutdown seems to have favored connected big business and killed Mom and Pop operations . My neighbors work from home but I've never seen so many Wine bottles in their recycling bins . Home depot was a shit show last February .,everyone was home so they decided to remodel ....the place was packed yet no breakouts occurred ?

I think it's safe to say Politicians don't give a rats ass about the population ,It's " Never let a crisis go to waste ".

 

[abc]

They did a great job with H1N1 right ? A disaster by there own admission

If H1N1 was a disaster, Covid is a catastraphy! Do we always do worse the next time?

"No mask" , " Where masks" , " Where two masks" . Same guy different leader LOL

That's the best illustration of why we are in a place we are now. People want certainty. People don't want to learn. They need to be told one thing and no matter what science progress to say it's wrong, it must not change!

They prefer to be told, with confidence. Even if it's lies.

 

[machski]

Look, the only way I can "vote" on all these differing responses/restrictions etc is with my feet and wallet. While I hate holding money back from the individual folks who work at resorts, I am so frustrated with VT's response I honestly don't know if I will ever ski that state again. ME has been kind to those of us living in NH, allowing for botht o move back and forth without Quarantine. Heck, they even exempt VT folks but VT didn't reciprocate to either of the other Northern NE states. Assuming this ends for next season, I feel like returning to ski in VT is just allowing the Government's decisions on how to handle this to get a passing grade, which I don't feel are warranted. Sure, they kept the virus transmissions low. But is that due to the strict travel protocols or more a factor of the mostly rural and small population of the state in the first place? No one will honestly ever be able to say definitively one or the other. Oh well. Same goes for Canada too for me.

 

[JimG.]

Look, the only way I can "vote" on all these differing responses/restrictions etc is with my feet and wallet. While I hate holding money back from the individual folks who work at resorts, I am so frustrated with VT's response I honestly don't know if I will ever ski that state again. ME has been kind to those of us living in NH, allowing for botht o move back and forth without Quarantine. Heck, they even exempt VT folks but VT didn't reciprocate to either of the other Northern NE states. Assuming this ends for next season, I feel like returning to ski in VT is just allowing the Government's decisions on how to handle this to get a passing grade, which I don't feel are warranted. Sure, they kept the virus transmissions low. But is that due to the strict travel protocols or more a factor of the mostly rural and small population of the state in the first place? No one will honestly ever be able to say definitively one or the other. Oh well. Same goes for Canada too for me.

+1 VT may have lost me forever.

But fortunately for VT nobody cares what I do.

 

[tnt1234]

Look, the only way I can "vote" on all these differing responses/restrictions etc is with my feet and wallet. While I hate holding money back from the individual folks who work at resorts, I am so frustrated with VT's response I honestly don't know if I will ever ski that state again. ME has been kind to those of us living in NH, allowing for botht o move back and forth without Quarantine. Heck, they even exempt VT folks but VT didn't reciprocate to either of the other Northern NE states. Assuming this ends for next season, I feel like returning to ski in VT is just allowing the Government's decisions on how to handle this to get a passing grade, which I don't feel are warranted. Sure, they kept the virus transmissions low. But is that due to the strict travel protocols or more a factor of the mostly rural and small population of the state in the first place? No one will honestly ever be able to say definitively one or the other. Oh well. Same goes for Canada too for me.

If you compare VT to other rural states, VT seems to do pretty well.

But I'm curious - you say you can't know for sure whether if was the government imposed travel restrictions or other factors that led to what is undoubtedly a good track record on community spread of the virus, but then condemn the state government for their actions.

IOW, if you can't say for sure whether or not the government actions worked to keep the state safer, why do you condemn those actions?

Seems to me VT had the balls to do what it had to do to keep it's people as safe as they can. and honestly, their restrictions are just common sense - I don't find the idea that you should be as reasonably sure as possible that you aren't bringing an infectious disease into another community to be draconian. If more states took a hard stand on this, and asked everyone to test or quarantine before travelling, we'd be doing much better as a country.

And the isolating is difficult for some, but testing shouldn't be. We should all be able to get a test every week. That was the first blunder - testing can really help, but we just didn't have enough to start with, and never made it part of the national plan.

Anyway - you can ski in VT this season. They just ask you to take a test or isolate to me sure you aren't bringing COVID in with you.

 

[machski]

If you compare VT to other rural states, VT seems to do pretty well.

But I'm curious - you say you can't know for sure whether if was the government imposed travel restrictions or other factors that led to what is undoubtedly a good track record on community spread of the virus, but then condemn the state government for their actions.

IOW, if you can't say for sure whether or not the government actions worked to keep the state safer, why do you condemn those actions?

Seems to me VT had the balls to do what it had to do to keep it's people as safe as they can. and honestly, their restrictions are just common sense - I don't find the idea that you should be as reasonably sure as possible that you aren't bringing an infectious disease into another community to be draconian. If more states took a hard stand on this, and asked everyone to test or quarantine before travelling, we'd be doing much better as a country.

And the isolating is difficult for some, but testing shouldn't be. We should all be able to get a test every week. That was the first blunder - testing can really help, but we just didn't have enough to start with, and never made it part of the national plan.

Anyway - you can ski in VT this season. They just ask you to take a test or isolate to me sure you aren't bringing COVID in with you.

That isn't correct, you have to Quarantine (byt their rules, basically completely isolate) for 7 days THEN negative test. I'm a pilot, I fly 7 days on, 7 days off. If I lived in VT and came back from a rotation I would be exempt and could ski all I wanted in VT. But I live in NH and while exempt in NH and ME, VT doesn't see it like that because I'd be coming from NH. So, with my schedule I CANNOT in good faith ski VT this year. And to be honest, it is ridiculous. So yes, because the two variables are not isolated (rural-ness of VT and VT government travel restrictions) a definitive reason why VT has been as successful at mitigating virus spread cannot be proven. But also given the fact the "open" NH/ME border hasn't caused a staggeringly larger difference in rates amongst those states, it begins to appear VT's restrictions might be more rigid than necessary. Regardless, my money has to be spent skiing in NH and ME this year and I have learned I can live without VT skiing. Will be tough super early season and super late without K, but I'll manage.

 

[tnt1234]

That isn't correct, you have to Quarantine (byt their rules, basically completely isolate) for 7 days THEN negative test. I'm a pilot, I fly 7 days on, 7 days off. If I lived in VT and came back from a rotation I would be exempt and could ski all I wanted in VT. But I live in NH and while exempt in NH and ME, VT doesn't see it like that because I'd be coming from NH. So, with my schedule I CANNOT in good faith ski VT this year. And to be honest, it is ridiculous. So yes, because the two variables are not isolated (rural-ness of VT and VT government travel restrictions) a definitive reason why VT has been as successful at mitigating virus spread cannot be proven. But also given the fact the "open" NH/ME border hasn't caused a staggeringly larger difference in rates amongst those states, it begins to appear VT's restrictions might be more rigid than necessary. Regardless, my money has to be spent skiing in NH and ME this year and I have learned I can live without VT skiing. Will be tough super early season and super late without K, but I'll manage.

Oh, that's right - I forgot about the 7 day thing first.

But I'm in the same boat. It's just not realistic for me to live up to their guidelines, so we have no plans to ski in VT this year.

I'm just not condemning them for doing what they think is right for their citizens, particularly since it seems to be working. Something is working. Hard to imagine dissuading travel isn't helping.

 

[JimG.]

Oh, that's right - I forgot about the 7 day thing first.

But I'm in the same boat. It's just not realistic for me to live up to their guidelines, so we have no plans to ski in VT this year.

I'm just not condemning them for doing what they think is right for their citizens, particularly since it seems to be working. Something is working. Hard to imagine dissuading travel isn't helping.

Perhaps VT government is doing what is best for their citizens.

But when I see hundreds of VT plates in NY every week and at NY ski areas as well I have to wonder just how effective these restrictions are. So I won't go into VT and spread the virus, but how about all these VTers who are visiting out of state locations on a regular basis? Are they somehow immune? They can't spread it?

It is the apex of hypocrisy to have a system where out of state Americans cannot visit a state without jumping through hoops but it's OK for in state residents to go anywhere they want. And then blame infections on out of state visitors. That is essentially what VT is saying.

 

[tnt1234]

Perhaps VT government is doing what is best for their citizens.

But when I see hundreds of VT plates in NY every week and at NY ski areas as well I have to wonder just how effective these restrictions are. So I won't go into VT and spread the virus, but how about all these VTers who are visiting out of state locations on a regular basis? Are they somehow immune? They can't spread it?

It is the apex of hypocrisy to have a system where out of state Americans cannot visit a state without jumping through hoops but it's OK for in state residents to go anywhere they want. And then blame infections on out of state visitors. That is essentially what VT is saying.

Isn't that on NY for not issuing similar restrictions?

And all those VT plates you see are supposed to quarantine when they get back to VT.

Preventing COVID-19 | Vermont Department of Health

To protect yourself and others, stay up to date on vaccines, stay home when sick, get tested when needed, consider when to wear a mask, and take considerations for people with medical certain conditions.

www.healthvermont.gov

 

[abc]

Perhaps VT government is doing what is best for their citizens.

But when I see hundreds of VT plates in NY every week and at NY ski areas as well I have to wonder just how effective these restrictions are. So I won't go into VT and spread the virus, but how about all these VTers who are visiting out of state locations on a regular basis? Are they somehow immune? They can't spread it?

If VT case number is low, VT residents traveling to other states aren't spreading it to other states (not as much as visitor INTO VT)

Whether VT residents quarantine after they visit NY, I have no idea. Seems some do.

I think that's the point. By having the restriction, they're achieving a partial result. It's not ideal. But it's better than throwing up one's hand and say "well, some people are going to ignore it. So let's not have any restriction".

 

[Smellytele]

Isn't that on NY for not issuing similar restrictions?

And all those VT plates you see are supposed to quarantine when they get back to VT.

Preventing COVID-19 | Vermont Department of Health

To protect yourself and others, stay up to date on vaccines, stay home when sick, get tested when needed, consider when to wear a mask, and take considerations for people with medical certain conditions.

www.healthvermont.gov

Right and all the Massachusetts residents that visit Vt and NH are supposed to quarantine 14 days as well when they get back.

 

[VTKilarney]

But when I see hundreds of VT plates in NY every week and at NY ski areas as well I have to wonder just how effective these restrictions are.

Hundreds of Vermonters driving to New York to ski? Something tells me it's hundreds of New Yorkers getting lower insurance rates with Vermont registrations.

 

[tnt1234]

If VT case number is low, VT residents traveling to other states aren't spreading it to other states (not as much as visitor INTO VT)

Whether VT residents quarantine after they visit NY, I have no idea. Seems some do.

I think that's the point. By having the restriction, they're achieving a partial result. It's not ideal. But it's better than throwing up one's hand and say "well, some people are going to ignore it. So let's not have any restriction".

I agree.

It's also evidence, IMO, for the need for a comprehensive national response.

 

[Edd]

Home depot was a shit show last February .,everyone was home so they decided to remodel ....the place was packed yet no breakouts occurred ?

Last February? Was Home Depot contact tracing? If not, how do you know there wasn’t spreading occurring there?

 

[njdiver85]

I think it's pretty much fact that transient exposure to someone with Covid does not result in infection the majority of the time. And I stress "majority" so please don't respond back to me to say it can still happen. Because of course it can still happen. But by transient, that would be passing someone in the Home Depot aisle, waiting in checkout at a grocery store, OR standing in a lift line or riding a chair lift for 7 minutes. Probably extremely low risk of infection, and with the latter two taking place outside that further reduces the risk of transmission.

Transmission is mostly occurring with groups of people hanging out indoors for an extended period, and by extended, I'm talking something like 15 minutes or more in close quarters. Most of the Vermont transmission happened this way - the governor said it himself. Look at the WinterPark employees - 109 test positive and was determined thru investigation that transmission was not from visitors but from social gatherings outside the workplace and congregate housing. Even restaurants have been found to be extremely low risk of transmission and the average time spent in a restaurant is well over 15 minutes.

Travel restrictions are pretty stupid for those who simply want to travel to a ski resort and ski the day, staying outside the whole time, and then go home the same day. Or someone driving from his home to his ski condo to ski for a few days with the only others in the home being the family he drove up with. But we are stuck with arbitrary regulations so we need to just get over it, and work within the system to abide by the regulations and get your skiing in.

On a related note, who even thinks we go back to normal next season? Not a chance is my guess!

 

[Not Sure]

Last February? Was Home Depot contact tracing? If not, how do you know there wasn’t spreading occurring there?

I suppose some spreading might have occurred but nothing major for the amount of people that were there. People working from home would eventually put two and two together .I’ve never seen that level of people there. I drove through the parking lot and left.

They eventually started limiting entrants but it was completely out of control early on.

 

[tnt1234]

I think it's pretty much fact that transient exposure to someone with Covid does not result in infection the majority of the time. And I stress "majority" so please don't respond back to me to say it can still happen. Because of course it can still happen. But by transient, that would be passing someone in the Home Depot aisle, waiting in checkout at a grocery store, OR standing in a lift line or riding a chair lift for 7 minutes. Probably extremely low risk of infection, and with the latter two taking place outside that further reduces the risk of transmission.

Transmission is mostly occurring with groups of people hanging out indoors for an extended period, and by extended, I'm talking something like 15 minutes or more in close quarters. Most of the Vermont transmission happened this way - the governor said it himself. Look at the WinterPark employees - 109 test positive and was determined thru investigation that transmission was not from visitors but from social gatherings outside the workplace and congregate housing. Even restaurants have been found to be extremely low risk of transmission and the average time spent in a restaurant is well over 15 minutes.

Travel restrictions are pretty stupid for those who simply want to travel to a ski resort and ski the day, staying outside the whole time, and then go home the same day. Or someone driving from his home to his ski condo to ski for a few days with the only others in the home being the family he drove up with. But we are stuck with arbitrary regulations so we need to just get over it, and work within the system to abide by the regulations and get your skiing in.

On a related note, who even thinks we go back to normal next season? Not a chance is my guess!

I assumed the logic behind the VT travel restrictions was to keep people from loading up their condo and inviting their local friends over, and then heading out to the bars, and then popping in on a friend or parent on the way home etc....

IOW, I don't think it's about the skiing. It's about the things that come with the skiing.

 

[JimG.]

And all those VT plates you see are supposed to quarantine when they get back to VT.

Just like all the NYers who ski in VT every weekend?

njdiver85 said it all. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Edd]

I suppose some spreading might have occurred but nothing major for the amount of people that were there. People working from home would eventually put two and two together .I’ve never seen that level of people there. I drove through the parking lot and left.

They eventually started limiting entrants but it was completely out of control early on.

Then it sounds as if you’re speculating entirely. I get that you’re sad about wine bottles and restaurants closing but state governments were compelled to do something. I bet “books will be written” about not enough being done.

 

[tnt1234]

Just like all the NYers who ski in VT every weekend?

For better or worse, NY does not 'require' or 'recommend' quarantining after visiting contiguous states.