COVID concerns in the Northeast

[Puck it]

huh. Thats weird! My quote was the bullet points at the top.


Found it!

The bullet point seems to come from this quote:

For example, in late July, Florida was reporting about 44 hospitalizations per 100,000 while California has about 22 per 100,000.

Seems misleading to bullet that.

I think your assertion seems correct.

odd

 

[machski]

I don't disagree with all that. I just think you can't say 'protect the vulnerable population while letting everyone else go back to normal'. It just can't work.

And I think testing and tracing could have been used to good effect no matter the regional or state approach.

The only way tracing could have been able to keep up would have been if the entire country was forced to enable tracing apps on their phones. Otherwise, at its peaks, it would have been an absolute spider web trying to contact trace everyone and cost a fortune. But given this is the USA, I don't think many would have willingly let Big Brother track their every move. And if it was forced, well January 6th would have been a kids party by comparison I think.
So while in theory testing and tracing could work well and limited spread/cases/deaths, I think it would have been hard to put into much tighter use in the USA without suspension of civil liberties. I guess since these things could pop up more often, it is a discussion we as a country need to have once the current crisis abates.

 

[2Planker]

Hospitals test their doctors and nurses frequently (probably not twice a week, maybe once a week?)

Perhaps the reason we're not testing nursing home employees is because nobody wants to pay for it?

YES, we were getting tested Twice/week when we started "surveillance testing" in August.
Recently (Jan) it was dropped to Once/week

 

[abc]

I elected to take unpaid leave early on until my company developed a better plan moving forward.

Isn't that the point many people are making, that we needed a better plan moving forward?

A plan that actually base on science, and have the support of the population.

In that plan, nursing home employees probably need to be vaccinated or take a no pay leave. Immunocompromised worker who can't work remotely too. But they should receive some basic amount of financial support from the government.

 

[abc]

The only way tracing could have been able to keep up would have been if the entire country was forced to enable tracing apps on their phones. Otherwise, at its peaks, it would have been an absolute spider web trying to contact trace everyone and cost a fortune.

At its peak, never mind. Tracing really only works when the case number is relatively low. It works best when cases are ISOLATED. And the point is to snub it out quickly. Otherwise, you're just seeing it connected everywhere. And it's pretty pointless even if you CAN find all the contacts, you'll end up quarantining half of the population, aka a lockdown.

But even when the case number is middling like it is now, contact tracing still helps. It doesn't need to "keep up" fully. Every contact traced is a potential spreader stopped. A friend of mine was exposed, informed by the person who tested positive. He self-quarantined. That stops him potentially passing it to others. It's a shame people just throw up their hand and say "it doesn't work very well, lets not bother trying". We're too quick to "give up" on less than perfect solutions and choose to do nothing at all.

 

[machski]

Isn't that the point many people are making, that we needed a better plan moving forward?

A plan that actually base on science, and have the support of the population.

In that plan, nursing home employees probably need to be vaccinated or take a no pay leave. Immunocompromised worker who can't work remotely too. But they should receive some basic amount of financial support from the government.

Maybe we do need a better plan. But it needs to be a better global plan for the next virus that pops up. Had a global plan been in place for this virus, perhaps we could have trapped it from the start. Of course, the evidence is beginning to look like China covered up the start of this thing more than we originally thought, which begs the question if the next virus can really be dealt with any better by the world.

Sure, we can contact trace better and isolate folks that have underlying complications, but that doesn't mean the next virus will follow the same course as this one. A lot could have been different, but outside of early (late January/early February when the science community first really came into awareness of this things potential severity) hard restriction at the national level with regards to travel and quarantine for international arrivals, not sure we really had a good chance to contain/minimize this. Absent a complete 21 day national lockdown to ensure the virus did not transmit in March of last year. Even after, we would have had to isolate our country like Australia and New Zealand did. And even they are still dealing with outbreaks, albeit smaller and the jump harder when they occur.

 

[drjeff]

One can argue the semantics all they want.

The reality is, if one is honest, that it's pretty incredible to think that likely by the time we get to that call it March 15th shutdown date 1 year anniversary, that a vaccine that basically had even had any development started on in, will likely have at least 1 dose, if not 2 doses, administered to somewhere around 80-85 million Americans at the rate vaccinations are going now, and that while certainly significant, the death toll at that 1 year mark will be substantially less than the million plus that some where postulating a year ago.

This entire situation has been far from perfect (heck, one could probably make a very sound case that there was no way it could ever of been handled "prefect"), however some of the achievements that have happened, have been incredibly impressive.

 

[abc]

Maybe we do need a better plan. But it needs to be a better global plan for the next virus that pops up.

After this pandemic, I'm completely disillusioned about "global" plan!

Sure, we need to corporate with other countries. That works better for everyone. But we got badly burned by China, first in its hiding the truth about the disease. Then the shortage of PPE, which was mostly manufactured in China! So I'd say whatever "plan" we have, we should first rely on ourselves, then work with other countries and utilize their capacity if possible.

(Mind you, I'm not bashing China. They did what they did out of self interest. But we got bad consequence as a result nevertheless). We need to think more on how to avoid that type of situation. Next time it maybe another country)

 

[tnt1234]

One can argue the semantics all they want.

The reality is, if one is honest, that it's pretty incredible to think that likely by the time we get to that call it March 15th shutdown date 1 year anniversary, that a vaccine that basically had even had any development started on in, will likely have at least 1 dose, if not 2 doses, administered to somewhere around 80-85 million Americans at the rate vaccinations are going now, and that while certainly significant, the death toll at that 1 year mark will be substantially less than the million plus that some where postulating a year ago.

This entire situation has been far from perfect (heck, one could probably make a very sound case that there was no way it could ever of been handled "prefect"), however some of the achievements that have happened, have been incredibly impressive.

Didn’t they come up with the blueprint for the vaccine in something like 4 days? Just incredible.

 

[tnt1234]

After this pandemic, I'm completely disillusioned about "global" plan!

Sure, we need to corporate with other countries. That works better for everyone. But we got badly burned by China, first in its hiding the truth about the disease. Then the shortage of PPE, which was mostly manufactured in China! So I'd say whatever "plan" we have, we should first rely on ourselves, then work with other countries and utilize their capacity if possible.

(Mind you, I'm not bashing China. They did what they did out of self interest. But we got bad consequence as a result nevertheless). We need to think more on how to avoid that type of situation. Next time it maybe another country)

Re: our early response. We had friends come home from Italy in April while that country was raging. Walked right through airport. No one asked them where they had been how they were feeling, or told them what precautions to take.

these are the kind of national missteps I think we took.

 

[machski]

Re: our early response. We had friends come home from Italy in April while that country was raging. Walked right through airport. No one asked them where they had been how they were feeling, or told them what precautions to take.

these are the kind of national missteps I think we took.

Agree, but the WHO was to blame for this mentality as well, saying travel restrictions and quarantines weren't required at the start. They came around far too slowly. So it wasn't just a country thing, it needs to be a global thing. But the WHO doesn't have the authority, just like the UN doesn't.

 

[JimG.]

Agree, but the WHO was to blame for this mentality as well, saying travel restrictions and quarantines weren't required at the start. They came around far too slowly. So it wasn't just a country thing, it needs to be a global thing. But the WHO doesn't have the authority, just like the UN doesn't.

Don't forget Dr. Fauci who first told us mask use was not needed.

Now he wants us to wear 2 masks.

 

[abc]

Don't forget Dr. Fauci who first told us mask use was not needed.

Now he wants us to wear 2 masks.

Yes, we now know what we didn't know.

A year ago, who had heard of Covid? (even now, the dictionary is still trying to auto-correct what I typed). It's not different than snow forecast. It's not always right. Quite often wrong. But your odds are better if you follow it than if you don't.

 

[abc]

Re: our early response. We had friends come home from Italy in April while that country was raging. Walked right through airport. No one asked them where they had been how they were feeling, or told them what precautions to take.

these are the kind of national missteps I think we took.

There're clearly missteps at the nation-wide level. But my point is, "global" plan should not rely on any individual foreign country so completely!

Take the example of Europe. Austria decided to downplay outbreaks in Ischl because they care more about tourist money than their health. Iceland had sounded the alarm when their returning tourists got sick. Sadly, almost no other country took Iceland's warning seriously.

 

[So Inclined]

Don't forget Dr. Fauci who first told us mask use was not needed.

Now he wants us to wear 2 masks.

The point of advising the hoi polloi not to use masks was to avoid a massive rush on N95-type masks when those seemed like the only effective PPE and doctors and nurses needed them desperately. Medical experts didn't know and couldn't possibly assert that less-robust surgical masks and facial coverings were pretty effective at preventing the spread, and the face-coverings cottage industry we have now hadn't yet spun up.

 

[Not Sure]

The point of advising the hoi polloi not to use masks was to avoid a massive rush on N95-type masks when those seemed like the only effective PPE and doctors and nurses needed them desperately. Medical experts didn't know and couldn't possibly assert that less-robust surgical masks and facial coverings were pretty effective at preventing the spread, and the face-coverings cottage industry we have now hadn't yet spun up.

Total BS ....So keep spreading the Virus ,......Should have been handled this way ...Honestly! ...Fauci should have said . " Dear public we need your help ,our caregivers need N95 masks we need to protect them from harm .If you can find them please drop some off at your local hospital ,In the meantime please use Scarves, Bandanas and whatever else you can to prevent airborne spread of the virus" . It would have been better than no masks at all . It downplayed the contagiousness of the disease and in the long run made things worse.

 

[abc]

Total BS ....So keep spreading the Virus ,......Should have been handled this way ...Honestly! ...Fauci should have said . " Dear public we need your help ,our caregivers need N95 masks we need to protect them from harm .If you can find them please drop some off at your local hospital ,In the meantime please use Scarves, Bandanas and whatever else you can to prevent airborne spread of the virus" . It would have been better than no masks at all . It downplayed the contagiousness of the disease and in the long run made things worse.

That's not Fauci's job. It's the President's job.

Fauci's priority was not to get fired by the president, like everyone else in the administration. Expecting him to speak frankly is asking too much.

 

[LasersInTheTaiga]

I just read that Phil Scott was going to announce changes in travel guidance for "Vermonters who have been vaccinated." My guess? Instead of 14 day quarantine, you will now be able to go about your business after ... 13 days of quarantine.

 

[Not Sure]

That's not Fauci's job. It's the President's job.

Fauci's priority was not to get fired by the president, like everyone else in the administration. Expecting him to speak frankly is asking too much.

So the President told him to lie ? Come on Man !!!!

 

[ScottySkis]

Don't forget Dr. Fauci who first told us mask use was not needed.

Now he wants us to wear 2 masks.

Who also was told by Obama administration to stop funding the China wutun lab which he did stop doing