Custom DIN settings

[eastcoastpowderhound]

yup, overthinking it...and no momentum in your living room, no ruts, no variable terrain, etc. as mentioned before, if you feel they are too high, take them down .5 and see how it goes. I'm an 8.5 on the chart, ski a min of 10 most days, up to 12 on powder days and skiing on burlier terrain out west...I'm 6'1 ~200lbs...but a 5'6 140lb kid in the terrain park may need his cranked even higher if he's going big.

 

[severine]

Use the chart as a starting point. Mine get set at 5.5 based on my data and I leave them there; especially since last year when I tore my ACL, it was partly because the ski did not come off during my fall. I have pre-released a couple times since starting trying bumps (walked right out of the ski actually) and will likely increase the DIN soon by .5, but I'm not going crazy. I've experienced first hand a non-release injury and I'm in no hurry to make it less likely that my ski will release when I need it to.

 

[speden]

I think you're putting way too much thought into this. ...

I'm definitely guilty as charged on that. I didn't think about it until I hurt my knee at the start of the season in a simple forward twisting fall. The ski came off, but my knee felt a little tweaked, and now that's a nagging injury that's bothered me all season. So that's not something I want to repeat if I can avoid it.

 

[madskier6]

I'll repeat what others have already said. Do not base your DIN setting by how it feels or releases in your living room. That's foolish because it is no where near actual ski conditions. I understand that you're a little gun shy due to a previous injury but you should go with the standard DIN settings based on the chart. Be honest to the shop with your height, weight, age & ski ability. Then see how it goes with the standard settings. If you feel that's too tight then dial it back by 0.5 but I doubt the standard setting will be too tough since they tend to be conservative to begin with (as others have already said).

 

[speden]

We need some more specific info here. You mention a din of 4 in your living room but 9 would be too high. That's a huge difference. :-o You haven't mentioned weight, height, skier type, age, or recommended din settings. ...

Well I'm about 150 pounds, 6'1", type 2, age 44, boot 325mm. I ski in a recreational boot, with middle of the road ski's (Volkl AC20's - 170cm).

By the charts that gives a DIN setting of 6.

But my weight is just barely into the next category, so if I were two pounds lighter, that would be a DIN of 5.

Then it's debatable if I should call myself a type 2 or type 1 skier. I like to ski fast, but feel like I use a very smooth skiing style, with no abrupt turns or sharp input forces to the ski's. I don't ski moguls, do jumps, rails, or ski on ice. If I say I'm a type 1, that would drop the chart DIN down to 4.

Then on age if you're over 50, the chart drops the DIN down another half point. I'm not 50, but honestly my conditioning is poor and I seem prone to sprains, so maybe the intent of the chart is to drop the settings for people with weak joints. If I do that I'm at a chart setting of 3.5.

I was skiing the other night and used a setting of 3.5. I started out skiing slowly since they were new skis, but gradually ramped up the speed until I was skiing harder than I usually do on rentals (amazing what a difference it makes to have sharp edges).

I was kind of waiting for the skis to pre-release on me, but they never did. After reading some of the feedback here, I'm thinking maybe I should bump my setting up to 4 the next time out. My skiing has improved a lot this season, and I really don't fall that much anymore, but I'm still freaked out about hurting my knee again.

I'm working on my leg strength, but realistically I won't see much gain this year, so that's more of an off season project for me.

 

[wa-loaf]

but I'm still freaked out about hurting my knee again.

Have you seen a doctor about it? A little physical therapy might go a long way in making your knee feel stronger. Or even if you don't google some knee exercises and do them on your own.

 

[speden]

I have pre-released a couple times since starting trying bumps (walked right out of the ski actually)

That's kind of a head scratcher for me. If you had a DIN setting of 5.5, it doesn't seem like it should be possible to walk out of the ski without feeling some significant resistance. That sounds like something was wrong with the binding or maybe there was some snow on the bottom of the boot.

Did the heel release actually trip or did the boot come out without it tripping? If it didn't trip, maybe the forward toe pressure wasn't set strong enough or there wasn't enough grease on the track under the rear binding. Then I can imagine the rear binding wouldn't have reacted quickly enough to the ski flexing to keep the binding tight, and the boot could slip out.

If it did trip maybe the other parts of the binding didn't have enough grease and weren't re-centering quickly after each jolt, so finally tipped over the edge. I have no experience with bump skiing, so I'm just trying to understand if you had a DIN setting problem there or if it was something else. From what everyone is saying, it sounds like I'd need to use higher DIN settings for moguls.

 

[speden]

Have you seen a doctor about it? A little physical therapy might go a long way in making your knee feel stronger. Or even if you don't google some knee exercises and do them on your own.

Nah, never seemed serious enough to see the doc. I didn't have any swelling after the injury, just some bruising under the skin. Was quite sore for a couple weeks and seemed like a small MCL tear. Now when I ski on it, it gets sore again for a few days. I don't think it will really heal fully until I stop skiing on it. I've been doing 15 min. daily on the exercise bike to rehab it, which has actually helped my skiing a lot, but that's been it so far. Probably will look to do some stretching and weight work this summer to see if I can build up more strength. But no one is ever going to confuse my knobby knees for tree trunks.

 

[tree_skier]

I use the recommended setting because if I don't and get hurt then the mountain doesn't pay workman's comp.. That being said I would still use the recommended settings for everything but speed (SG- DH). If you are constantly "prereleasing" then it is an indicator of technique issues not a binding being set to light.

Skibum you are way too high at 10. That is what I am on and I do have more then a few pounds and inches on you. However you should be on the 3+ setting which the shop didn't tell you about.

 

[severine]

That's kind of a head scratcher for me. If you had a DIN setting of 5.5, it doesn't seem like it should be possible to walk out of the ski without feeling some significant resistance. That sounds like something was wrong with the binding or maybe there was some snow on the bottom of the boot.

Did the heel release actually trip or did the boot come out without it tripping? If it didn't trip, maybe the forward toe pressure wasn't set strong enough or there wasn't enough grease on the track under the rear binding. Then I can imagine the rear binding wouldn't have reacted quickly enough to the ski flexing to keep the binding tight, and the boot could slip out.

If it did trip maybe the other parts of the binding didn't have enough grease and weren't re-centering quickly after each jolt, so finally tipped over the edge. I have no experience with bump skiing, so I'm just trying to understand if you had a DIN setting problem there or if it was something else. From what everyone is saying, it sounds like I'd need to use higher DIN settings for moguls.

I'm not a bindings expert and it's possible something was off other than the DIN the time I walked out of the ski (I seem to recall o3jeff mentioning that, too). I have fallen other times since and it did not release, so that's likely an unrelated issue. Sorry about that. Sometimes I make connections in my head that don't come out the way they should. Regardless, I understand the concern.

 

[mondeo]

That's kind of a head scratcher for me. If you had a DIN setting of 5.5, it doesn't seem like it should be possible to walk out of the ski without feeling some significant resistance. That sounds like something was wrong with the binding or maybe there was some snow on the bottom of the boot.

Did the heel release actually trip or did the boot come out without it tripping? If it didn't trip, maybe the forward toe pressure wasn't set strong enough or there wasn't enough grease on the track under the rear binding. Then I can imagine the rear binding wouldn't have reacted quickly enough to the ski flexing to keep the binding tight, and the boot could slip out.

If it did trip maybe the other parts of the binding didn't have enough grease and weren't re-centering quickly after each jolt, so finally tipped over the edge. I have no experience with bump skiing, so I'm just trying to understand if you had a DIN setting problem there or if it was something else. From what everyone is saying, it sounds like I'd need to use higher DIN settings for moguls.

Prerelease is typically a result of impacts. In the case of impacts (landings, ruts, moguls, etc.,) the force applied to the binding may be high enough to release, but with very little movement. Your tendons aren't going to care that much if they have too much force applied to them for a few thousandths of an inch, but because bindings trip due to force not energy (which is force times distance,) impacts that present no real danger to joints can cause the bindings to release. Where you want bindings to release is in situations where the ski will continue to strain bones, tendons, and ligaments if not released. Essentially, setting a binding higher than the chart should be left to people that ski fast enough that the risk due to prerelease is greater than the risk due to falling. The skier level is basically a formalized version of this; the risk of injury at a particular DIN setting is independant of skier skill, the only reason higher skill level people get a higher DIN setting is because the risk of prerelease is higher for them.

 

[speden]

Prerelease is typically a result of impacts.

Ah, thanks for that. That is really the crux of what I wanted to understand.

The twist out test in my living room is somewhat simulating a non-impact case, where I'm traveling one way and my ski catches an edge and steers off another way. That will produce a gradual twist of my knee and rip things up unless my knee is strong enough to resist the DIN setting. For this scenario I'd want the DIN set as low as possible.

For an impact event, like slamming through a rut or landing a jump, the force impulse is so short, my boot acts like an immovable object from the point of view of the ski, so the binding can trip without my leg really feeling much force.

Then for normal smooth skiing, the DIN settings are never really approached, even in a hard turn, since the normal forces applied are primarily pressing down on the ski, with very little side force. People that pre-release during normal skiing at chart settings are probably doing so because of "bad" technique, like trying to steer by twisting their feet or slamming onto the ski fronts and loading them up like a bow and arrow.

So for me 3.5 is probably fine for normal skiing as long as I don't have any impacts, and my knees would be pretty safe in a crash. But I'm running a risk of pre-release if I have an impact event, so going to higher settings increases my protection against that. I think that makes sense.

Somebody said earlier they use a high DIN setting for skiing in powder. I don't ski in powder, but that seems wrong. Powder wouldn't cause short impulse impact events, unless you're hitting rocks and junk buried in the snow. But if you hit stuff like that, wouldn't you want the bindings to release? If you were skiing on ice, then you'd get a lot more impact events with frozen ruts, so would need a higher DIN setting.

 

[Philpug]

For me it's two things: the NASTAR racing; i don't want them coming off going a round a gate and I keep them comparatively low when you consider some race bindings go up to 20 DIN. I also ski pretty fast through crud and bumps and don't want my skis to pop off just cause they got knocked around a little.

I have dialed back a little since I blew my ACL last year (from a collision, not binding related).

Marker has a 30 DIN.

I run my Jesters at a 10/10, my Marker 5.14's a 11/10, that toe doesn't have the elasticity I like. My Salomon 912's I run at a 10/10. My Tyrolia 350D a 3/3 (their Pre-DIN max).

I would suggest anyone who is skiing above their DIN, I would suggest getting your binding torqued to where is should be, then change it to what you want. The reason behind that, is you will see if the spring is reacting as it should. DIN in the window is a point of reference, it is more how Nm react in pounds. If you are a 8 DIN, it might show 7 or 9 in the window but more in how the torque is that is important. You might be setting your binding at a 10, doesn't mean it is reacting at a 10 unless you have a point of reference.

 

[Geoff]

Prerelease is typically a result of impacts.

No. Prerelease is usually the result of skiing poorly. If you are skiing smoothly, you will never put the kind of shock on your toe piece that causes you to walk out of the binding. If you're muscling your way through the terrain, you'll walk out all the time using the DIN setting from the chart. I'm talking recreational skiers and that's 99% of the people on the hill. If you're walking out, take a lesson instead of pulling out a screwdriver.

The only time I turn my bindings up is when I'm on "no fall" terrain. That doesn't exist in New England.

Edited:
I broke 50 last May. I now have to lie about my age when I fill out the shop form. They subtract 1 when you break 50. That's appropriate for a sedentary office worker but I still have plenty of muscle mass.

 

[drjeff]

No. Prerelease is usually the result of skiing poorly. If you are skiing smoothly, you will never put the kind of shock on your toe piece that causes you to walk out of the binding. If you're muscling your way through the terrain, you'll walk out all the time using the DIN setting from the chart. I'm talking recreational skiers and that's 99% of the people on the hill. If you're walking out, take a lesson instead of pulling out a screwdriver.

The only time I turn my bindings up is when I'm on "no fall" terrain. That doesn't exist in New England.

.

+1

Shop set DIN chart of 8.0 for me on my Atomic Neox's. Haven't pre-released once in over 200 days on essentially the same binding/DIN setting across bumps, trees, spring mush, hardpack high speed GS cranker arcs, etc. Even back in my more serious racing days of my past, I never set my DIN more than a 10, and I've basically been within 0.5 either side of 8.0 on the DIN chart since the mid 80's.

If your having problems breaking stuff/regularly popping out or handling certain types of terrain, the majority of the skiing public is better off spending the $$ they're thinking of dropping on some new gear on some lessons!

 

[mondeo]

No. Prerelease is usually the result of skiing poorly.

Obviously, hitting a bump a little too hard every once in a while or dropping 15 feet constitutes skiing poorly. :roll: