Dealing with this season's conditions

[hammer]

Just wanted to ask how others handle the following types of situations, which unfortunately have been all too common this season.

• Speed control on steep(er) hardpack/FG
• Turns in deep loose granular

I can usually hack my way down and get through the FG or LG but it usually doesn't look or feel pretty. AFAIK my ski edges are pretty sharp.

 

[2knees]

Just wanted to ask how others handle the following types of situations, which unfortunately have been all too common this season.

• Speed control on steep(er) hardpack/FG
• Turns in deep loose granular

I can usually hack my way down and get through the FG or LG but it usually doesn't look or feel pretty. AFAIK my ski edges are pretty sharp.

I side slip when it's steep and icy. i could care less about how it looks or what the proper form would be, i just want to get off it in one piece.

sugar/sand snow sucks. just power through it.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, basically I revert to old style skidding more :lol:

 

[St. Bear]

What gives me the most trouble is the variability between the two. Sheets of firm hardpack with random spots of loose granular or even machine made snow.

 

[kingslug]

If its just a sheet like Clairs I just bomb down it, side slipping to scrub off speed..when it gets variable it get a bit more interesting. I think the worst is ice with piles of powder all over the place. I just try to slow down before hitting the powder. I've seen so many people yardsale in these conditions..but not this year..yet.

 

[Cornhead]

I think this year's conditions have been mentally taxing. Frozen granular is pretty fast stuff, and beneath it lies a sheet of ice. It makes me nervous, you never know when it'll bite you, and trees and poles are hard. I had so much fun two Sundays ago at Greek Peak. They got eight inches of pixie dust. It was liberating to be able to bounce around without fear of loosing control. Maybe skiing this crap has made me a better skier? Conditions have not been terrible in general, lack of terrain is more the issue this year.

 

[Nick]

Oh and alcohol helps

 

[legalskier]

Speed control on steep(er) hardpack/FG: I control my speed using turn shape, i.e. completing each turn by turning back up the hill a bit at the end of each turn. It's very effective in slowing me down. Usually these conditions are found towards the center of a trail, permitting wider turns.

Turns in deep loose granular: A bit more speed here but not much. My new skis are 88 underfoot and float through it. These conditions usually exist at trail side, so I do short radius turns if I want to stay in it.

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

Been tuning a bit more to keep em sharp

 

[KevinF]

Speed control on steep(er) hardpack/FG: I control my speed using turn shape, i.e. completing each turn by turning back up the hill a bit at the end of each turn. It's very effective in slowing me down. Usually these conditions are found towards the center of a trail, permitting wider turns.

Turns in deep loose granular: A bit more speed here but not much. My new skis are 88 underfoot and float through it. These conditions usually exist at trail side, so I do short radius turns if I want to stay in it.

Yep, this is what I do, or at least what I'm trying to do. It's amazing how fast a slight uphill hook at the end of each turn will slow you down. Of course, the ability to hook them uphill meant you never got your skis skidding wildly out of control in the first place, which on truly clear ice is difficult to do.

Deep loose granular.. I dunno. I just ski the stuff.

 

[Edd]

I straightline every trail.

 

[Cornhead]

I straightline every trail.

I think I may know you...or your brother.

 

[Cheese]

Speed control on steep(er) hardpack/FG: I control my speed using turn shape, i.e. completing each turn by turning back up the hill a bit at the end of each turn. It's very effective in slowing me down. Usually these conditions are found towards the center of a trail, permitting wider turns.

This is almost it. If one assumes a carved turn is absolutely skid free, then it's virtually impossible to accomplish a carved turn on steep terrain. It is possible to start a carve, skid quickly or jump mid turn to decrease the turn radius, engage the skis again to carve the remainder of the turn and finish by heading up the hill to bleed speed. This is probably what legalskier performs on steeps.

Why?
The minimum turning radius of skis is so large that you literally can't make many more than a half dozen carved turns from top to bottom of a run (12m radius=78' feet/turn). During the time it takes skis to make these monstrous arcs a large portion of the time is spent with skis pointed down the fall line. Acceleration happens quickly and it won't take long before the snow holding the carve against momentum will fail. Obviously we need to get our skis to come around sooner than this so a quick skid or jump will allow this to happen. The key is to keep the jump or skid brief and reengage the edge very hard to stop skidding immediately.

Turns in deep loose granular: A bit more speed here but not much. My new skis are 88 underfoot and float through it. These conditions usually exist at trail side, so I do short radius turns if I want to stay in it.

At the trail edge in this loose granular there is often a ridge. The ridge has a steep side facing the trail and a steep side facing the woods. Both sides of the ridge generally receive a nice coating of corn snow pushed from the trail. If you link turns on either side of this ridge it is almost like skiing soft moguls. Again, there is a skid or jump at the transition of each turn to tighten up the radius and allow for quicker turns.

 

[deadheadskier]

throttle back before blind spots on the trail. You can usually tell what the snow is going to be like several turns ahead. Adjust speed/technique prior to the trouble spots. In loose piles of snow, I slow way down. On hard pack, I stick to the center of the trail if I'm carrying a lot of speed.

 

[Warp Daddy]

My Atomic SX 10's are heavy as hell and razor and hold really well and are like GINSU's in these conditions.

Since we ski hardpack/ white ice often, 5 of the 7 in my regular group purposely bought these after demoing many brands and they frankly are much better skied aggressively , which is how we run them .Being Ex hockey pucks at the collegiate level we keep em on edge and simply point 'em south and let 'em run and arc some nice fast gs/ super g radii turns down thru it . These Atomics hold magnificently so i have absolutely no fear of running them . been running these super heavy suckers for several years

Yesterday case in point 20 run at Mach Schnell (we simply get these conditions alot and are used to them ) . Now in an unfamiliar venue i 'd back off somewhat but fear is not your friend in these conditions

 

[KevinF]

This is almost it. If one assumes a carved turn is absolutely skid free, then it's virtually impossible to accomplish a carved turn on steep terrain. It is possible to start a carve, skid quickly or jump mid turn to decrease the turn radius, engage the skis again to carve the remainder of the turn and finish by heading up the hill to bleed speed. This is probably what legalskier performs on steeps.

Why?
The minimum turning radius of skis is so large that you literally can't make many more than a half dozen carved turns from top to bottom of a run (12m radius=78' feet/turn). During the time it takes skis to make these monstrous arcs a large portion of the time is spent with skis pointed down the fall line. Acceleration happens quickly and it won't take long before the snow holding the carve against momentum will fail. Obviously we need to get our skis to come around sooner than this so a quick skid or jump will allow this to happen. The key is to keep the jump or skid brief and reengage the edge very hard to stop skidding immediately.

First, I don't disagree that carved turns are highly impractical on steep terrain due to the large turn size and enormous speeds that can develop.

You can, however, steer your way around throughout the entire turn. So long as you don't do anything too suddenly, your skis will hold reasonably well, and you can make a pretty tight turn. I've made turns down the steepest part of Hayride at Stowe when it was "firm" using about 2 groomer widths at most.

 

[Edd]

I think I may know you...or your brother.

Don't ski like my brother.

 

[Cheese]

First, I don't disagree that carved turns are highly impractical on steep terrain due to the large turn size and enormous speeds that can develop.

You can, however, steer your way around throughout the entire turn. So long as you don't do anything too suddenly, your skis will hold reasonably well, and you can make a pretty tight turn. I've made turns down the steepest part of Hayride at Stowe when it was "firm" using about 2 groomer widths at most.

I look forward to a demonstration at the Alpine Summit. I'm not sure what you're riding for boards, but based on your groomer widths I'd say you're speaking of 3m radius turns on steeps.

 

[billski]

This is almost it. If one assumes a carved turn is absolutely skid free, then it's virtually impossible to accomplish a carved turn on steep terrain. It is possible to start a carve, skid quickly or jump mid turn to decrease the turn radius, engage the skis again to carve the remainder of the turn and finish by heading up the hill to bleed speed. This is probably what legalskier performs on steeps.

Why?
The minimum turning radius of skis is so large that you literally can't make many more than a half dozen carved turns from top to bottom of a run (12m radius=78' feet/turn). During the time it takes skis to make these monstrous arcs a large portion of the time is spent with skis pointed down the fall line. Acceleration happens quickly and it won't take long before the snow holding the carve against momentum will fail. Obviously we need to get our skis to come around sooner than this so a quick skid or jump will allow this to happen. The key is to keep the jump or skid brief and reengage the edge very hard to stop skidding immediately.

Agree. A couple weeks back, I was coached for two hours on how to handle this stuff and shake off my bad old habit of the "shuffle" (sliding one ski forward), 60-40 weight on both skis in turn, and during the transition to never get off edge.

It was amazing after several runs that I actually was feeling more comfortable and more in control on ice/near ice conditions. Also getting rid of the tail skid helps a lot. As they say, not easy, but well worth the effort. Thank you Magic Mountain! :flag:

 

[KevinF]

I look forward to a demonstration at the Alpine Summit. I'm not sure what you're riding for boards, but based on your groomer widths I'd say you're speaking of 3m radius turns on steeps.

When's the Alpine Summit? I seriously doubt I can make it though as every single weekend from here until May is booked.