Death at Cannon

[drjeff]

The reality is that with the widths, twists, contours of many "classical" New England style trails, they're just not meant to be skied/ridden by the "masses" when old school New England ice is present and the trail is generally flat due to modern grooming.

In the past, sure there was plenty of old school ice, however those trails rarely were as groomed smooth as they often are today. This allows trails that were designed and cut in an era where the limitations of the equipment (both for the skier and the ski area) kept the overall speeds down to a much lower level, a level where a slide off a trail often ended up with much less injuries to the person who fell than often happens today.

This sure can put a ski area in a dilemma where they either need to alter the classic character of a trail, add some safety enhancements to a trail, or take some actions such as "speed check" fencing in select places (something I absolutely hate because it ruins the flow of a trail and more often than not creates an ugly, slick, bottleneck where the speed check fencing is set up) to try and keep the speeds down to a reasonable level that will safely allow the average ability skier/rider to use that trail

 

[deadheadskier]

Cool... Everyone be safe.. Read signs.. ignore them...whatever...

I just don't like seeing fences..

Given the choice of not seeing a fence or knowing a fence could save someone's life, which would you choose?

 

[Jcb890]

Given the choice of not seeing a fence or knowing a fence could save someone's life, which would you choose?

I agree with this. I don't think we're advocating big fencing across the trail and speed checks, just a fence along the outer barrier of the trail so you're not going down into the woods in the case of an accident. It seems like common sense to me.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

Given the choice of not seeing a fence or knowing a fence could save someone's life, which would you choose?

Can't answer that without knowing all the specifics...

sorry...

 

[Funky_Catskills]

I mean - there could be fences everywhere if we put a fence up every place someone went off the trail inadvertently..

I'm the guy on the other side questioning it.. It's OK.. I'm not going to tear fences down..

 

[Jcb890]

Can't answer that without knowing all the specifics...

sorry...

I mean - there could be fences everywhere if we put a fence up every place someone went off the trail inadvertently..

I'm the guy on the other side questioning it.. It's OK.. I'm not going to tear fences down..

I understand your point, but you're just being obtuse to be obtuse and stick to your opinion that you don't like the look of fences. This is a known problem corner where there has been at least one death (more than 1?) and many more serious injuries have occurred at this spot. Again, nobody is advocating speed checks or fences everywhere, we are saying specific corners (like this one) which are very dangerous and have lead to injuries - these places should have netting/fencing.

 

[Not Sure]

Maybe a few rows of Fir trees as a natural fence? Elk seems to use that strategy . Maintain smaller ones up front ...no fences to look at and problem solved.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

Maybe a few rows of Fir trees as a natural fence? Elk seems to use that strategy . Maintain smaller ones up front ...no fences to look at and problem solved.

Now that's cool...

 

[Jcb890]

Maybe a few rows of Fir trees as a natural fence? Elk seems to use that strategy . Maintain smaller ones up front ...no fences to look at and problem solved.

This is a good idea and much more natural. :beer:

 

[deadheadskier]

Can't answer that without knowing all the specifics...

sorry...

All of the information concerning this spot including pictures and the history of the severe accidents and fatalities that have occurred there are right in this thread. All the information needed to answer the question is here.

As mentioned prior, we are not advocating lining the whole mountain; just strategic locations with negative safety history.

If aesthetics trump saving lives to you, that's fine. Own it. Because that's what appears to be your position. I could be wrong. That's why I asked a direct yes or no question.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

I understand your point, but you're just being obtuse to be obtuse and stick to your opinion that you don't like the look of fences. This is a known problem corner where there has been at least one death (more than 1?) and many more serious injuries have occurred at this spot. Again, nobody is advocating speed checks or fences everywhere, we are saying specific corners (like this one) which are very dangerous and have lead to injuries - these places should have netting/fencing.

I don't like fences.... sorry...

If someone is continually sliding to their death on the same trail...
Well.... there's another issue that needs to be resolved..

 

[Funky_Catskills]

All of the information concerning this spot including pictures and the history of the severe accidents and fatalities that have occurred there are right in this thread. All the information needed to answer the question is here.

As mentioned prior, we are not advocating lining the whole mountain; just strategic locations with negative safety history.

If aesthetics trump saving lives to you, that's fine. Own it. Because that's what appears to be your position. I could be wrong. That's why I asked a direct yes or no question.

If people are constantly sliding to their demise on the same trail..
Then of course the ski area is going to put up a fence because we live in a horribly litigious society..

I stopped being a friend with a guy that slid off a trail at Hunter and claimed it was their fault for not having a fence and sued them..
The month before we were on a trip to Whistler.. We skied diagonal chutes... Jumped cornices...
he just fukced up and slid off the trail...

 

[VTKilarney]

If people are constantly sliding to their demise on the same trail..
Then of course the ski area is going to put up a fence because we live in a horribly litigious society..

Or just maybe the ski area cares about people's lives. Just saying...

 

[Jcb890]

I don't like fences.... sorry...

If someone is continually sliding to their death on the same trail...
Well.... there's another issue that needs to be resolved..

Well, there's evidently a problem with the trail/snow conditions/etc. to cause repetitive problems in that one area. You said you'd be more against re-grading (as I think everyone would be), so fencing is the easiest way to help things. Or... like siliconebob said, put in some smaller, softer trees/bushes which can help act as a fence so people aren't going off it directly into rocks and thick-ass pines/oaks/etc.

You do take your own risks going out there, but mountains can certainly be sued and honestly, in an instance like this where you have a corner and the mountain knows it is a problem, yet repeatedly does nothing, there's some grounds to argue negligence there, IMO.

 

[Puck it]

 

[Jcb890]

Is this a column for ants?!

 

[Funky_Catskills]

Or just maybe the ski area cares about people's lives. Just saying...

Of course...

just sayin..

 

[cdskier]

or take some actions such as "speed check" fencing in select places (something I absolutely hate because it ruins the flow of a trail and more often than not creates an ugly, slick, bottleneck where the speed check fencing is set up) to try and keep the speeds down to a reasonable level that will safely allow the average ability skier/rider to use that trail

Sugarbush has one spot with a "speed check fence" (more like a speed check "rope")...at the end of Paradise Extension where it dumps onto Downspout. I absolutely hate it! It is 2 ropes offset with a narrow opening that are difficult to see if you forget they are there (which I've done before as there's no warning ahead of time to slow down).

This picture doesn't do it justice as this is much wider than the opening usually is. Usually the opening is so narrow and such a sharp turn that you almost have to stop to get through it without taking out one of the ropes.


In this case I think a simple "slow down...trails merge" sign would be much safer.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

Didn't some guy get decapitated at Killington with a rope fence?

 

[Abubob]

May have missed it - but has anyone considered that he may have not been able to see where he was going given the undercast that day? I've skied into clouds like that before and it is very disorienting. Sometimes you can't even see the snow beneath your skies.