Environmental Damage at Cannon Mountain Ski Area

[jack97]

Tough to depreciate anything when you are leasing it.

The goal of any business is to make a profit. If you load yourself up with debt, you just become another Les Otten with the inevitible catastrophe.

Last four companies I was employed, we leased the pc, intranet and any type of support equipment. Another place they lease the motor vehicles.

Yes, the goal is make a profit but some of the laws are such that tax payment can be significantly reduced. Case in point, during the last NFL lockout, owners were saying their franchise were break even, the players union force them to open the books, then they realized how much money (or profits) the owners and their family were pocketing from their job titles.... the books did show minimum profits because the payroll was so high. Any business that is privately held will do the same to some extent, alter the payroll to minimize the tax payments.

 

[catskills]

OMG - this is not a major cluster ___k . Everyone calm down. I don't know of any ski area that is dumb enough to just leave a trail like that.

I have spent a few summers building many ski trails. Hey stuff happens. This is not a major problem.

In August during the dry season. We would get a new ski trail in perfect condition finding as much top soil as possible and burying rock and stumps. We would put two tractor trailer loads of hay on the entire trail. A few days later a T-Storm would drop 4 inches of rain in 24 hours and we would have to do it all over again. It happens. Steep trails are not easy to grade. They can require a 25 ton dozer with a winch pulling a smaller dozer up the trail.

On the environment plus side ski trails are extremely good for wild life. Birds and mammals enjoy the large food selection that grows on the edge of ski trails. The edge of ski trails have a food source that is much more abundant than woods with a high tree canopy.

 

[Black Phantom]

OMG - this is not a major cluster ___k . Everyone calm down. I don't know of any ski area that is dumb enough to just leave a trail like that.

I have spent a few summers building many ski trails. Hey stuff happens. This is not a major problem.

In August during the dry season. We would get a new ski trail in perfect condition finding as much top soil as possible and burying rock and stumps. We would put two tractor trailer loads of hay on the entire trail. A few days later a T-Storm would drop 4 inches of rain in 24 hours and we would have to do it all over again. It happens. Steep trails are not easy to grade. They can require a 25 ton dozer with a winch pulling a smaller dozer up the trail.

On the environment plus side ski trails are extremely good for wild life. Birds and mammals enjoy the large food selection that grows on the edge of ski trails. The edge of ski trails have a food source that is much more abundant than woods with a high tree canopy.

Who would have thought that wildlife enjoyed eating rotting building materials?

 

[jack97]

OMG - this is not a major cluster ___k . Everyone calm down. I don't know of any ski area that is dumb enough to just leave a trail like that.

I have spent a few summers building many ski trails. Hey stuff happens. This is not a major problem.

In August during the dry season. We would get a new ski trail in perfect condition finding as much top soil as possible and burying rock and stumps. We would put two tractor trailer loads of hay on the entire trail. A few days later a T-Storm would drop 4 inches of rain in 24 hours and we would have to do it all over again. It happens. Steep trails are not easy to grade. They can require a 25 ton dozer with a winch pulling a smaller dozer up the trail.

Yep..... that's why some have grown hostile to the op and these threads explode in this manner. Although he has some good points it gets drowned out by topics like this where it gets blown out of proportion. He making a mountain out of a molehill..... i don't think there's a pun in this.

 

[Black Phantom]

Yep..... that's why some have grown hostile to the op and these threads explode in this manner. Although he has some good points

Stop the Brutal Trashing of the White Mountain National Forest.

 

[Geoff]

Last four companies I was employed, we leased the pc, intranet and any type of support equipment. Another place they lease the motor vehicles.

Yes, the goal is make a profit but some of the laws are such that tax payment can be significantly reduced. Case in point, during the last NFL lockout, owners were saying their franchise were break even, the players union force them to open the books, then they realized how much money (or profits) the owners and their family were pocketing from their job titles.... the books did show minimum profits because the payroll was so high. Any business that is privately held will do the same to some extent, alter the payroll to minimize the tax payments.

You're trying to compare a multi-billion dollar enterprise like NFL football to a relatively small business like operating a New England ski area? The big guys like Killington, Okemo, and Sunday River are only $40 to $50 million dollar businesses. I'll bet Cannon doesn't do $20 million. The accounting is pretty straightforward. If you are leasing the place, you can depreciate the capital equipment you actually own like grooming equipment. There aren't a heck of a lot of places to hide income from Uncle Sam. If you show a profit, you'll be paying your New Hampshire state income tax.

That said, New Hampshire has a great business tax climate. It ranks #7 in the country. Everybody else in the Northeast is in the bottom 20. A New Hampshire ski area isn't paying that much in income tax, workmans comp, and unemployment insurance compared to other places. Still, that's money the state would be receiving that it doesn't get now when Canon is state-run and probably doesn't break even if you look at the true costs.

 

[thetrailboss]

Stop the Brutal Trashing of the White Mountain National Forest.

Technically, Cannon and Mittersill now are in the FNSP under NH control, not the WMNF. The state completed a landswap with WMNF to get the Mittersill parcel.

 

[deadheadskier]

Technically, Cannon and Mittersill now are in the FNSP under NH control, not the WMNF. The state completed a landswap with WMNF to get the Mittersill parcel.

and....when Mittersill wasn't controlled by Cannon / FNSP and under WMNF jurisdiction, lift towers, shacks, etc, were allowed to just sit there and rot. I'm guessing the WMNF folks did very little to mitigate erosion as well......

 

[threecy]

and....when Mittersill wasn't controlled by Cannon / FNSP and under WMNF jurisdiction, lift towers, shacks, etc, were allowed to just sit there and rot. I'm guessing the WMNF folks did very little to mitigate erosion as well......

What erosion? Those trails were carefully built and maintained to old fashioned ski area standards. The fragile moss carpet that covered a significant portion of the ripped up trails is ideal for natural skiing with minimal snowpack. It'll be a long time before (if) that ever comes back in those places.

The WMNF boundary is very close to the Sky Line erosion.

 

[thetrailboss]

What erosion? Those trails were carefully built and maintained to old fashioned ski area standards. The fragile moss carpet that covered a significant portion of the ripped up trails is ideal for natural skiing with minimal snowpack. It'll be a long time before (if) that ever comes back in those places.

The WMNF boundary is very close to the Sky Line erosion.

Weren't you the one who was up in arms because they used a chopper for the lift install and not surface roads? That would have caused much more damage.

 

[threecy]

Weren't you the one who was up in arms because they used a chopper for the lift install and not surface roads? That would have caused much more damage.

I didn't know you had lift installation experience.

The parts of the Mittersill project that were properly rehabbed had minimal erosion and were growing grass, only a few months out.

The Spillway replacement at Sugarloaf, which is in a more difficult setting (further north, sustained steeps, higher elevation), is still being considered via crane rather than helicopter. The prep and concrete work as been done via the ground so far.

 

[thetrailboss]

I didn't know you had lift installation experience.

The parts of the Mittersill project that were properly rehabbed had minimal erosion and were growing grass, only a few months out.

The Spillway replacement at Sugarloaf, which is in a more difficult setting (further north, sustained steeps, higher elevation), is still being considered via crane rather than helicopter. The prep and concrete work as been done via the ground so far.

My point is that you were upset last year that they did not build roads for crane because of cost. Now you are pointing out places where the install crew caused erosion from using the trails. Building roads would have caused much more drastic damage than what you have shown here. Seems like the argument goes both ways.

 

[threecy]

Now you are pointing out places where the install crew caused erosion from using the trails.

I absolutely am not. By every indication I've seen, Doppelmayr CTEC did good work.

 

[Puck it]

I absolutely am not. By every indication I've seen, Doppelmayr CTEC did good work.

So who did it, they did not. They were the only ones installing the lift.

 

[Black Phantom]

So who did it, they did not. They were the only ones installing the lift.

You are not a very good detective. :razz:

 

[Puck it]

You are not a very good detective. :razz:

Not very good at

Who did it then if not CTEC?

 

[from_the_NEK]

Who did it then if not CTEC?

Cannon Mtn when they disassmbled the old lift and from the equipment used to widen the ski trails back to their "original footprint"?

 

[Black Phantom]

Not very good at

You need to at least get the right car to get good at this stuff.:wink:

 

[Puck it]

Cannon Mtn when they disassmbled the old lift and from the equipment used to widen the ski trails back to their "original footprint"?

I think CTEC was responsible for the lift removal too. Threecy will probably chime in on that.

 

[threecy]

I think CTEC was responsible for the lift removal too. Threecy will probably chime in on that.

I don't believe Cannon has blamed Doppelmayr CTEC for any of the damage.