Environmental Damage at Cannon Mountain Ski Area

[Puck it]

I don't believe Cannon has blamed Doppelmayr CTEC for any of the damage.

Was Ctec responsible for the removal?

 

[Johnskiismore]

Personally, I would much rather talk about getting Kinsman Glade and the Kinsman hiking trail cleaned up. That drainage is an absolute mess and much more of a concern than the above pictures at Mittersill.

Agree, the Kinsman Trail needs some immediate erosion control! Couldn't believe how much worse parts were from last summer

 

[riverc0il]

What erosion? Those trails were carefully built and maintained to old fashioned ski area standards. The fragile moss carpet that covered a significant portion of the ripped up trails is ideal for natural skiing with minimal snowpack. It'll be a long time before (if) that ever comes back in those places.

Have you ever actually skied the Skyline trail? "Ideal"??? Skyline trail is one of the worst trails at Mittersill when coverage is thin. Second only perhaps to the steep section of the Liftline trail (the old cut, the new cut is even worse). As I noted above, your picture shows some damage but largely it shows how wrong Skyline already was in its natural state. It was a sheet of bedrock even before it was used as an access road. They had to use it for an access road trail, what other option did they have? The previous comment about the hypocrisy of being anti air lift and now complaining about environmental damage on a trail used for access is telling. What ever Cannon does, it is wrong in your opinion, no mater what, you'll find a fault.

 

[Cannonball]

I'm trying to keep an open, objective mind about this issue. I definitely have a problem with mismanaged land-use and environmental damage. But based on Threecy's track record I question his agenda and the "whole truth" aspect of this. So in all fairness I have been trying to find some other reports on this issue. Maybe something from an objective news source. Threecy started reporting it here on July 5th, says the impacts dated back to last year (at least), and says the issue was raised in the senate hearings this spring. I have to assume he's spreading the word to the media and not just to ski forums. Where are the news stories? This is not a sarcastic comment but a real question. I just want to read up on the issue but I can't find anything about it. Does anyone have some real, objective info on this?

 

[Puck it]

I'm trying to keep an open, objective mind about this issue. I definitely have a problem with mismanaged land-use and environmental damage. But based on Threecy's track record I question his agenda and the "whole truth" aspect of this. So in all fairness I have been trying to find some other reports on this issue. Maybe something from an objective news source. Threecy started reporting it here on July 5th, says the impacts dated back to last year (at least), and says the issue was raised in the senate hearings this spring. I have to assume he's spreading the word to the media and not just to ski forums. Where are the news stories? This is not a sarcastic comment but a real question. I just want to read up on the issue but I can't find anything about it. Does anyone have some real, objective info on this?

Check the pics that I posted above. The Taft trail looked the same when they widened it and in the new pic.

 

[threecy]

From your own site after the widening of the Taft trail in 2009.

Looks about the same to me.

Check the pics that I posted above. The Taft trail looked the same when they widened it and in the new pic.

Your date is incorrect - in fact, it doesn't even match the filename that you hot linked. Photo 1, which you incorrectly referred to as "2009" is named "richardtafttrail-2010-0912b.jpg." That trail did not look like that in fall 2009.

Rather, you are comparing a September 2010 photo with a May 2011 photo.

 

[Puck it]

Your date is incorrect - in fact, it doesn't even match the filename that you hot linked. Photo 1, which you incorrectly referred to as "2009" is named "richardtafttrail-2010-0912b.jpg." That trail did not look like that in fall 2009.

Rather, you are comparing a September 2010 photo with a May 2011 photo.

That pic is from your own website and it was just after the trail was widened as per the date you had listed it as 2009.

 

[threecy]

That pic is from your own website and it was just after the trail was widened as per the date you had listed it as 2009.

No, it is not listed as 2009. If you looked at where you took the photo link, it's under "2010" and the file name is "richardtafttrail-2010-0912b.jpg" and the web site says "Some trail widening took place in 2009 and some blasting and regrading in 2010."

 

[Cannonball]

Threecy, can you direct me to some info on this issue that isn't generated by you. Thanks, just want to learn more about it and how it's being handled.

 

[riverc0il]

No, it is not listed as 2009. If you looked at where you took the photo link, it's under "2010" and the file name is "richardtafttrail-2010-0912b.jpg" and the web site says "Some trail widening took place in 2009 and some blasting and regrading in 2010."

Lftgly already debunked the blasting issue.

 

[threecy]

Lftgly already debunked the blasting issue.

Debunked? There were people who claimed reports of the saddle work (as well as future grooming across it) to be a lie, however reality was that the saddle was worked on (large pieces of rock were broken apart and moved) and was groomed, starting on February 11, 2011.

I suspect the rock work in the saddle was done with the same equipment they used to blast apart the old chairlift footings:

 

[threecy]

Threecy, can you direct me to some info on this issue that isn't generated by you. Thanks, just want to learn more about it and how it's being handled.

I'm not sure if/where the replay can be downloaded at this point (it had been streaming online), but there were a few State Senators who discussed their findings during HB2 hearings this spring.

 

[Puck it]

No, it is not listed as 2009. If you looked at where you took the photo link, it's under "2010" and the file name is "richardtafttrail-2010-0912b.jpg" and the web site says "Some trail widening took place in 2009 and some blasting and regrading in 2010."

You are right the 2009 pics were snowy. I grabbed the 2010 pic. My bad. The Cannon website had some pics from the widening I will see if I can find them.

 

[Cannonball]

I'm not sure if/where the replay can be downloaded at this point (it had been streaming online), but there were a few State Senators who discussed their findings during HB2 hearings this spring.

OK. I look for that too. I was actually interested in objective news reporting not politicians yammering. But I'll take whatever there is.

Edit: Also, what was NH DEP's response to your complaint?

 

[Puck it]

OK. I look for that too. I was actually interested in objective news reporting not politicians yammering. But I'll take whatever there is.

Edit: Also, what was NH DEP's response to your complaint?

What about the trail widening? Why wasn't there a complainnt then?

 

[Cannonball]

I'm trying to keep an open, objective mind about this issue. I definitely have a problem with mismanaged land-use and environmental damage. But based on Threecy's track record I question his agenda and the "whole truth" aspect of this. So in all fairness I have been trying to find some other reports on this issue. Maybe something from an objective news source. Threecy started reporting it here on July 5th, says the impacts dated back to last year (at least), and says the issue was raised in the senate hearings this spring. I have to assume he's spreading the word to the media and not just to ski forums. Where are the news stories? This is not a sarcastic comment but a real question. I just want to read up on the issue but I can't find anything about it. Does anyone have some real, objective info on this?

OK I've asked about this a few times. And nobody (including Threecy) knows of any objective reporting of this issue, or any media coverage of the issue at all. The only place this has been reported is Threecy's website and apparently it was brought up in senate budget discussions.

Since I'm sure Threecy is doing everything possible to alert as many people as possible about the issue, I assume the media and NH DEP are at least aware of the claims. Since there has been no coverage and no enforcement, I assume there is more (or actually less) to the story than Threecy is reporting and it is, in fact, a non-issue.

 

[bobbutts]

OK I've asked about this a few times. And nobody (including Threecy) knows of any objective reporting of this issue, or any media coverage of the issue at all. The only place this has been reported is Threecy's website and apparently it was brought up in senate budget discussions.

Since I'm sure Threecy is doing everything possible to alert as many people as possible about the issue, I assume the media and NH DEP are at least aware of the claims. Since there has been no coverage and no enforcement, I assume there is more (or actually less) to the story than Threecy is reporting and it is, in fact, a non-issue.

You have way too much faith in the media and govt agencies. They ignore important issues constantly and waste thousands of hours on coverage on nothing. Absurd argument.

 

[Puck it]

What about the trail widening? Why wasn't there a complainnt then?

Asking this again? Whay weren't you consider when they were widening the trail in 2009? There was a lot damage done then.

 

[threecy]

Asking this again? Whay weren't you consider when they were widening the trail in 2009? There was a lot damage done then.

I didn't observe significant erosion, brook sedimentation, or recent manmade material disposal at that time.

Noted, though, that you believe there was a lot of damage done during the trail widening.

 

[Cannonball]

You have way too much faith in the media and govt agencies. They ignore important issues constantly and waste thousands of hours on coverage on nothing. Absurd argument.

NH DEP ignores complaints about environmental violations. NH finance department covers up accounting practices for state facilities. NH state employees block access to public lands. Sounds like you've got yourself a nice conspiracy theory going there.