EVs - New Hampshire gets it right

[ceo]

Hold on. EV's convert 75% of WHAT energy to motion? Does that include losses in the car itself? Battery losses? Resistive losses when charging? Resistive losses from powerplant to home? And now for the big kahuna - what about the power source for the electricity itself? How much of the electricity generated is a percentage of all fuels used? (Natural gas 38%, coal 23% nationally) I think you are way off.

The MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) EPA mileage rating for electric cars is calculated "wall to wheel", so as to be comparable to the "tank to wheel" efficiency of ICE vehicles, and is the rated mileage per 33.7 kWh, the equivalent amount of energy in a gallon of gasoline. The reason MPGe ratings are so much higher is because of the vastly higher thermal efficiency of electric motors, 90% as opposed to maybe 40% for an ICE; resistive losses within the vehicle are minuscule by comparison. (source)
And gas and coal powerplants are also vastly more efficient than ICEs, so the "well to wheel" efficiency of EVs on a typical mix of US power sources, including all transmission etc. losses is still 1.6 that of ICE vehicles, and their well-to-wheel greenhouse gas emissions are less than half. (source) And, as the power grid transitions to using more renewable sources, EVs will transition right along with it, making their advantage in terms of GHG emissions even larger.

 

[Harvey]

Only getting about 38mpg.

If you care about this (many don't) just try a little harder. Based on my experience with a CRV hybrid, I bet you can learn how to get 45 with that Rav. But you have to value economy over speed and acceleration.

 

[BodeMiller1]

The Biden Administration Wants To Spend $100 Million To Fix The Country's Broken EV Chargers

EV charging in this country still sucks. From too much tech to simply being unreliable, there’s still no practical incentive to buy an EV. No matter how many tax discounts the government can offer, no one wants a car that they can’t charge because all their local infrastructure is broken...

www.yahoo.com

Ouch

I will admit that I really do enjoy both driving and riding in her XC90. The only 2 things I wish were different is #1, that the battery life was longer, say maybe 50 to 75 miles on full EV vs the 30 to 40 miles she gets now, that would cover most of her work commutes, and #2, to me atleast, the way the gear shifter functions, is completely counter intuitive. To get her car into a forward gear, you pull BACK of the gear shifter and to get her car into reverse, you push FORWARD on the gear shifter!! I will totally admit that the 1st few times I drove it, I almost had an incident two with getting out of parking spaces and our garage beause of that backwards to my brain set up!

I'd think you could get around the battery problem in the same way you'd keep an extra can of gas in the trunk. But, if you add an extra battery for storage it could open up a can of worms. As far as the shifter goes; I think this is because they drive on the wrong side of the road in Europe. That's go to be it.

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

you joined this board in march 2020 solely to spew right wing covid misinformation garbage. you're a stupid sister fucking rube. go use a cellphone.

Since your brain is stuck on stupid as a result of your drug dependence you have no idea how sick you are. That would explain why you
own nothing but your skis and car. Good luck paying 4k a month rent until the landlord raises rent. Get used to the idea of pissing away 5k, then 6k a month rent you fucking pathetic serf. If rates stay high that would suck for young folks, my sympathies for those priced out of the market.
Too bad you were too stoned to figure out that with the fed at zerobound on rates for nearly 14 years that you should have bought a home. Dumb fuck.
I came from nothing and own 2 homes now. A mind is a terrible thing to waste Kusty.

 

[skiur]

Ouch

I'd think you could get around the battery problem in the same way you'd keep an extra can of gas in the trunk. But, if you add an extra battery for storage it could open up a can of worms. As far as the shifter goes; I think this is because they drive on the wrong side of the road in Europe. That's go to be it.

Just the UK driveson the wrong side of the road, most of the rest of Europe doesn't.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Since your brain is stuck on stupid as a result of your drug dependence you have no idea how sick you are. That would explain why you
own nothing but your skis and car. Good luck paying 4k a month rent until the landlord raises rent. Get used to the idea of pissing away 5k, then 6k a month rent you fucking pathetic serf. If rates stay high that would suck for young folks, my sympathies for those priced out of the market.
Too bad you were too stoned to figure out that with the fed at zerobound on rates for nearly 14 years that you should have bought a home. Dumb fuck.
I came from nothing and own 2 homes now. A mind is a terrible thing to waste Kusty.

Lol but you fuck your sister.

 

[Hawk]

That the fuck is wrong with you people. Jeezus.

 

[SteezyRob]

hawk spittin straight facts!

 

[jimmywilson69]

Summer Summer SUM MER TIME

 

[Edd]

I think it’s been a good summer for AZ in terms of conflicts. But, this would be a perfect time for an infrequent poster to dive in, ask everyone “What’s happened to this place? Used to be cool”, then leave, never acknowledge the good content here and feel smug.

 

[IceEidolon]

I ought to point out that a battery "wearing out" is often reduced range but an otherwise functional car. So as more EVs enter the used market at "average car age" or ~12.5 years, they'll be "city/commuter" cars with maybe 200 miles of range instead of the 300 they left the factory with. Even if no manufacturer makes a "budget" EV, the used market will have options, particularly for commuters.

I'll also note that as manufacturers build more cars, they get more experience with battery management systems. I believe early Leafs are notorious for rapid battery degradation, while many other brands handle charge/discharge and temperature regulation much better. Old battery failure rates and new entrant battery failure rates are potentially far higher than the eventual fleetwide failure and capacity loss rates.

Finally, with any "all new cars must be" mandate, remember that the average fleet age now is 12.5 years. Some rough estimation puts 90% fleet electrification somewhere around 2050 give or take with that very aggressive timeline.

 

[Smellytele]

I ought to point out that a battery "wearing out" is often reduced range but an otherwise functional car. So as more EVs enter the used market at "average car age" or ~12.5 years, they'll be "city/commuter" cars with maybe 200 miles of range instead of the 300 they left the factory with. Even if no manufacturer makes a "budget" EV, the used market will have options, particularly for commuters.

I'll also note that as manufacturers build more cars, they get more experience with battery management systems. I believe early Leafs are notorious for rapid battery degradation, while many other brands handle charge/discharge and temperature regulation much better. Old battery failure rates and new entrant battery failure rates are potentially far higher than the eventual fleetwide failure and capacity loss rates.

Finally, with any "all new cars must be" mandate, remember that the average fleet age now is 12.5 years. Some rough estimation puts 90% fleet electrification somewhere around 2050 give or take with that very aggressive timeline.

My sons will have taken my keys from me by 2050.

 

[BodeMiller1]

It's over this is the best car ever built.

The Dark Horse Mustang. This car works for me on so many levels.

https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/models/dark-horse/

 

[BodeMiller1]

Just the UK driveson the wrong side of the road, most of the rest of Europe doesn't.

That's what I thought. In some of the third world countries. You can drive in the same direction as others.

 

[BodeMiller1]

I think it’s been a good summer for AZ in terms of conflicts. But, this would be a perfect time for an infrequent poster to dive in, ask everyone “What’s happened to this place? Used to be cool”, then leave, never acknowledge the good content here and feel smug.

Summons Humpty Dumpty.....

Hocus pocus to and from something evil this way comes. Through the barn across the dale, eye of bird and shell of snail.

Okay, this should take about an hour depending on what super awesome activity Humpty is up to.

That was close.

 

[BodeMiller1]

I think it’s been a good summer for AZ in terms of conflicts. But, this would be a perfect time for an infrequent poster to dive in, ask everyone “What’s happened to this place? Used to be cool”, then leave, never acknowledge the good content here and feel smug.

Seems to have gone off the rails. When a hurricane heads our way people act odd. This is the most logical explanation. Good thing snow will fly early this year.

 

[mister moose]

The MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) EPA mileage rating for electric cars is calculated "wall to wheel", so as to be comparable to the "tank to wheel" efficiency of ICE vehicles, and is the rated mileage per 33.7 kWh, the equivalent amount of energy in a gallon of gasoline. The reason MPGe ratings are so much higher is because of the vastly higher thermal efficiency of electric motors, 90% as opposed to maybe 40% for an ICE; resistive losses within the vehicle are minuscule by comparison. (source)
And gas and coal powerplants are also vastly more efficient than ICEs, so the "well to wheel" efficiency of EVs on a typical mix of US power sources, including all transmission etc. losses is still 1.6 that of ICE vehicles, and their well-to-wheel greenhouse gas emissions are less than half. (source) And, as the power grid transitions to using more renewable sources, EVs will transition right along with it, making their advantage in terms of GHG emissions even larger.

Natural gas generation is 44% efficient, coal is 32%. Worldwide use of coal is 36%, world wide use of natural gas is 23% of electricity production. (US is 20% coal and 40% natural gas)

So currently a weighted average in the US is 40% efficiency on generation of electricity, which comprises 60% of the electricity generated. Due to the lower efficiency of coal, the fossil fuel generation is not more efficient at the powerplant than in your car. Much worse on a world wide basis.

Of course, the non carbon sources for electricity generation mean lower carbon emissions for an electric vehicle. In the US, 60% is still fossil fuel, and 18% is nuclear. Only 22% is 'green' renewables.

So all this R&D, and push to spend more money on the purchase price of electric cars is to save 36% on carbon emissions. (40% less the 10% loss from all electric transmission, storage and motor losses) The US contributes 14% of worldwide carbon emissions. In the US, transportation accounts for 28% of carbon emissions. Of all the transportation sources, cars contribute 45%. So on a worldwide basis, by transitioning to electric vs ICE engines we will be reducing worldwide carbon by 36% of 45% of 28% of 14%. Thats going to be a small number.

US transportation carbon emissions: ...28%
Of that cars are 45%..................................12.6%
Of that, electric cars reduce by 36% ...4.5%

By transitioning all of our US cars to electric, (not going to happen) we would save 0.63% of worldwide carbon emissions. Compare that to worldwide savings by reducing coal, using more natural gas, and more nuclear. Spending time and capital on electric cars doesn't seem that rewarding.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

Maybe folks could consider each deciding what kind of car works for them instead of preaching at each other.

As someone who likes to regularly drive between NJ and New England in cold weather on a tight schedule, I can't see an EV being practical for that at present.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Natural gas generation is 44% efficient, coal is 32%. Worldwide use of coal is 36%, world wide use of natural gas is 23% of electricity production. (US is 20% coal and 40% natural gas)

So currently a weighted average in the US is 40% efficiency on generation of electricity, which comprises 60% of the electricity generated. Due to the lower efficiency of coal, the fossil fuel generation is not more efficient at the powerplant than in your car. Much worse on a world wide basis.

Of course, the non carbon sources for electricity generation mean lower carbon emissions for an electric vehicle. In the US, 60% is still fossil fuel, and 18% is nuclear. Only 22% is 'green' renewables.

So all this R&D, and push to spend more money on the purchase price of electric cars is to save 36% on carbon emissions. (40% less the 10% loss from all electric transmission, storage and motor losses) The US contributes 14% of worldwide carbon emissions. In the US, transportation accounts for 28% of carbon emissions. Of all the transportation sources, cars contribute 45%. So on a worldwide basis, by transitioning to electric vs ICE engines we will be reducing worldwide carbon by 36% of 45% of 28% of 14%. Thats going to be a small number.

US transportation carbon emissions: ...28%
Of that cars are 45%..................................12.6%
Of that, electric cars reduce by 36% ...4.5%

By transitioning all of our US cars to electric, (not going to happen) we would save 0.63% of worldwide carbon emissions. Compare that to worldwide savings by reducing coal, using more natural gas, and more nuclear. Spending time and capital on electric cars doesn't seem that rewarding.

I get the gist of your argument.

What if The United States pulled it off. Then the world followed. This would be a technological mess. Even industrialized countries can't build, design much (except for Western Europe).

I blame California for pie in the sky CAFE fuel standards.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Wow, havent checked in here in about a week, came back to this thread, read about the last 12 posts, and be like.....