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Fly vs Drive: Break even point

Hawk

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Do what you like, it doesnt matter to me, but what started this convo was the 3000 mile OCI, and changing your oil every 3000 miles is a waste of money and oil.
No the convo started when I said I change my oil at the end of each leg of a 3000 mile trip that includes driving at high speeds for extended periods of time. You said I was wasting my money.
So for a sanity check I texted my neighbor who works at Wakefield Subaru asked his opinion. He agreed that it is a good idea to change your oil on long trips like that because long duration driving at high speeds breaks down any oil. Just as I thought.
 

mister moose

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Even 15 years later the sheer scale of distance still blows me away after growing up in the NE where you can be like 7 states away in 8 hours, vs it takes longer than that just to cross Nebraska.
Ugh. Unpleasant memories there. Missouri is forever, but that's just training for Kansas.

The other thing that he is not considering is that the highway miles that manufactures consider normal are at 65-70 mph for 2 to 3 hours at a shot. Sure if that is what you are doing then sure your oil will not break down. Heading west there are large stretches that you can drive 80-90 ever 100mph easily. You will also be running the car at those speeds for much more extended periods of time. What do you think that will do to the make up of the oil? No I will change my oil on trips long before the 10,000 or ever 5,000.
The larger deterioration is the acids that form with each cool down. It's cycles and time between cycles as much as mileage.

You're right about the 3,000 miles on standard oil being unnecessarily low, but if you're going 10,000 miles between all your changes on synthetic, you're slowly killing your car.
Some things will kill the car faster, see below.

Toyota only does oil changes every 10k on the Toyota care plan on my 18 Tundra, and before that my 12 FJ Cruiser. They check it every 5k, but only replace on 10k intervals.

Check it? You mean quantity? Color? Hard to believe they're doing any lab analysis. The cynical me says they do that because they are mainly interested in seeing the engine last long enough to 1) make it through the lease, 2) through the warranty 3) through any generic customer review period, ie less than 100k miles.


I like value and knowing which cars hold up before I buy them -- also not swimming in money...My parents do OK financially for example -- one has a BMW the other has a Jaguar. My Dad is like "they're only changing my oil every 7500 miles". If I was in that position I'd change the oil myself halfway in between. For a car that expensive you want to stretch out oil? ...

UNLESS -- you don't care about keeping the car long term and going high miles.

Lot's of folks that can afford new cars buy used, as you said, it's cheaper. Lots of folks that live paycheck to paycheck lease expensive cars. YMMV.

How are all you high mileage guys getting your cars to last so long? Don't you drive in snow, slush and salt in the winter? Our cars literally dissolve in 12-14 years. Gone. Impending structural failure. At 10-15k miles per year, all I need to do is coax that engine to 150k-190k miles. Any high falutin oil or change interval that makes the car last longer than 200k is wasted money. Now on a summer driver princess car, sure.

And that comment on oil changes harming the planet, oil has to be one of the most recycled items around.

 
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bdfreetuna

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How are all you high mileage guys getting your cars to last so long? Don't you drive in snow, slush and salt in the winter? Our cars literally dissolve in 12-14 years. Gone. Impending structural failure. At 10-15k miles per year, all I need to do is coax that engine to 150k-190k miles. Any high falutin oil or change interval that makes the car last longer than 200k is wasted money. Now on a summer driver princess car, sure.

Idk I've had a 1995 Subaru Legacy go up to 330,000+ miles with only a couple rust spots. Parked outside and driven on dirt roads most it's life.

other Subies went into the 200,000's easily but I decided to switch it up -- one time I did have a head gasket failure on a Forester and being almost 200,000 I decided to throw in the towel at that point. Otherwise it was totally fine.

Some cars are notorious for early rust but I've got an 08 Legacy GT now. 150k on the clock and no rust. Could use a paint touch up mostly from highway chips up front. 349whp/329wtq on the dyno. I consider it a modern classic so even if I break a ring land or throw a rod I'll do a rebuild or swap on the engine. I think the body should be good for another 100k miles before it starts to look possibly embarrassing.

What I take skiing 90% of the time, and on some days it's more fun than the skiing itself

LegacyGT-11-6-18-2.jpg
 

cdskier

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I'm fascinated by these comments on oil...

So my old truck (07 Chevy Avalanche) had GM's "oil life system" which told you when to change your oil based on your driving habits. My driving (including commuting) is 95% highway. It ended up "calculating" that I should change my oil pretty much every 9-10K miles (and this was conventional oil). Kind of nuts, but the truck did have 230K miles on it when I sold it (to my mechanic who still drives it today). Really wasn't until the end that I had major engine related problems (valve lifter collapsed and we ended up replacing them all while the engine was open to be safe). Having said that, knowing what I know now would I ever do that again? No way. I ultimately decided manufacturers are not to be trusted with their recommendations and that I was lucky.

On my new truck I use synthetic and change it every 5-6K miles. (The "oil life" system still tells me I can go longer...but why push it?)
 

KustyTheKlown

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jesus christ jim. i thought i had a high tolerance for long drives but you take the cake

good call re: corona virus and flight prices. i just looked at denver for april 9 - 13 since we are closed for good friday on the 10th, and its under $200. very tempting. a-basin.
 

bdfreetuna

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Check it? You mean quantity? Color? Hard to believe they're doing any lab analysis.

It's a known, 100% fact, that "checking the oil" means they look at the dipstick and top it off.

This ain't Blackstone Laboratories :D


If you want to get to MRG and be car #1, #2, #3 or #4 in the parking lot a Subaru is required. I may have been too stoked to close the door for the photo ;)

Sub-MRG.jpg
 

abc

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jesus christ jim. i thought i had a high tolerance for long drives but you take the cake

good call re: corona virus and flight prices. i just looked at denver for april 9 - 13 since we are closed for good friday on the 10th, and its under $200. very tempting. a-basin.
If you have a lot of flexibility, this is the time to take advantage of the lower fare.

I don’t believe our chance of getting sick is any worse than day to day living in New York. But you could end up having your flight canceled or being quarantined from back luck. Those are the more realistic risks. It may impact your job or family, inconvenience not illness.
 

jimk

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For the foreseeable future our rare trips out West will be flying.

I have a retirement fantasy of winterizing a small camper and spending all winter roaming around the Rockies and Sierras, wherever is good.

I skied with this fellow last week at Jackson Hole. He has been living your ski-camper fantasy for the last ten years. He operates out of western Canada and roams North America about a month at a time before returning to his home base for a week or two before his next new winter adventure. I call him the man, the elderstatesmen, and the skiing-on-the-cheap sensei.
pug gang dano summit2.jpg
 

ScottySkis

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If you have a lot of flexibility, this is the time to take advantage of the lower fare.

I don’t believe our chance of getting sick is any worse than day to day living in New York. But you could end up having your flight canceled or being quarantined from back luck. Those are the more realistic risks. It may impact your job or family, inconvenience not illness.

https://www.necn.com/news/national-...-coronavirus-flew-into-logan-airport/2241662/
Probably $1 flight from Boston now
No thanks I wait to catch a flight personal due it another year.
" CORONAVIRUS
Man Diagnosed With Coronavirus Flew Into from Loagan airport"
 
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ScottySkis

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I skied with this fellow last week at Jackson Hole. He has been living your ski-camper fantasy for the last ten years. He operates out of western Canada and roams North America about a month at a time before returning to his home base for a week or two before his next new winter adventure. I call him the man, the elderstatesmen, and the skiing-on-the-cheap sensei.
View attachment 26513

That's sweet way of life
 

BenedictGomez

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KustyTheKlown

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yea im prob more at risk commuting to work on the subway>path every day than i would be on a commercial flight. its asses to elbows on those trains at 8 AM and 5:30 PM
 

cdskier

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yea im prob more at risk commuting to work on the subway>path every day than i would be on a commercial flight. its asses to elbows on those trains at 8 AM and 5:30 PM

I could never deal with that. Just taking a bus into the city on a weekend when it isn't even crowded makes me want to immediately take a shower.
 

KustyTheKlown

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I like to think that between the nyc subway and the rodeway inn Rutland I have a top notch immune system at work
 

bdfreetuna

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I like to think that between the nyc subway and the rodeway inn Rutland I have a top notch immune system at work

Let's not underestimate years of picking molly/kizzle boogers with zero sleep in random Biscuit fan crash pads. True herd immunity at work. You're still gonna need oregano oil to knock out those hookworms though.
 

Smellytele

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Synthetic oil shears too just not as quickly. The 10,000 mile oil change interval = brought to you by motor oil manufacturers trying to outdo each other. Pure marketing. Maybe you can get away with OCI like that in a 90's Toyota or Honda. I hope you check your oil levels too..

Yup your engine is basically same as in my 08 Legacy GT minus the turbo (unless you are 3.6R which is fundamentally similar anyway). Subaru says 3,750 mile OCI on my car. I usually aim for 3,000 since that's the number most Subie enthusiasts stick with, and my car is pretty high miles with bolt ons/tune.

My wife's Rav4 I use cheaper synthetic and do 5,000 mile OCI. That's the sweet spot for most vehicles.


Just another reason not to get a subaru, engines are just too finicky., Premium gas, oil changes every 3k - no thanks. Drove my last 3 vehicles over 220k. Last one actually my son totaled at 220k.
 

bdfreetuna

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Just another reason not to get a subaru, engines are just too finicky., Premium gas, oil changes every 3k - no thanks. Drove my last 3 vehicles over 220k. Last one actually my son totaled at 220k.

I agree for the most part. But if you want an AWD(good AWD) vehicle with manual transmission and superior driving dynamics there's not a lot of competitive options unless you want to pay 4x the price for marginally better performance and less reliability. Especially if we're talking sedans rather than truck-like vehicles. I'm thinking of adding a Nissan Xterra 4.0L manual to my driveway but we'll see.

But 220k miles any Subaru will easily do if you don't abuse it badly. They do go the distance if you maintain them. I'm kind of a car nerd and a cheapskate to maintenance is something I'm into anyway.

5k mileage is fine if you have a stock NA Subie and use good oil. It's not that drastic on maintenance unless you're turbo'd.
 

KustyTheKlown

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Let's not underestimate years of picking molly/kizzle boogers with zero sleep in random Biscuit fan crash pads. True herd immunity at work. You're still gonna need oregano oil to knock out those hookworms though.

those were the days. i'd love to take a time machine back to 2009, just for a couple weeks of summer tour.
 
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