"Guerilla" Ski Instruction

[Andrew B.]

And how could they prove there was an illicit lesson going on? Make a rule that people cannot ski together?

And that is the devil in this whole argument isn’t it.

Not sure the mountain can do anything to the free lance lesson taker but if they wanted to they are fully with in their rights as private or leased land holders to take action against the one benefiting ($$$) from their asset.

 

[machski]

And that is the devil in this whole argument isn’t it.

Not sure the mountain can do anything to the free lance lesson taker but if they wanted to they are fully with in their rights as private or leased land holders to take action against the one benefiting ($$$) from their asset.

They could, but I think the publicity blowback would be more severe to a resort than what they gain in a legal prosecution.

 

[Andrew B.]

They could, but I think the publicity blowback would be more severe to a resort than what they gain in a legal prosecution.

The old “if i owned the hill” i wouldnt think its worth it.

word is out there that some resorts are watching social media to catch free lancers. If thats true, then someone sees value in stopping it. I bet the risk managers want them to stop it

 

[machski]

The old “if i owned the hill” i wouldnt think its worth it.

word is out there that some resorts are watching social media to catch free lancers. If thats true, then someone sees value in stopping it. I bet the risk managers want them to stop it

Done on the down low I'm sure they do want that. I just couldn't imagine public backlash if say Vail Resorts cracked down hard and it got publicized. But quietly doing it, by maybe going after them and then lightening up on punishment for a NDA, that would make sense.

 

[faceplant]

Nsaa - suite 300
Psia - suite 200
must be justa coinkeedink !

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[BenedictGomez]

As far as underground teaching.... it's not cool. That's a stance I think we can all agree on.

Nope. Don't care.

 

[BenedictGomez]

PSIA does not put its members first.

Nothing could be further from you truth, you simply fail to understand who the PSIA members are.

 

[BenedictGomez]

We have friends who do it for their daughter. They pay the friend in beer.

Doubly illegal if it's keg beer!

 

[BenedictGomez]

You don't have to buy a lift ticket to go into shaws.

Yeah, his equivalence argument fails the logic test.

It would be more accurate if he said you literally had to pay to walk into Shaws & literally had to pay to sell tomatoes, but the only tomatoes you couldn't sell were ones from your garden. lol

 

[Abubob]

As far as underground teaching.... it's not cool. That's a stance I think we can all agree on.

No one likes PSIA. When I was part-time, it averaged out to me paying $200 a year in dues and education for a "job" which I made just under $1,000 in net paychecks each of my first 2 seasons. Now it is a "real job" for me with decent money and the (now) $250ish average in education/dues each year is acceptable pocket change. But for someone trying to teach weekends at the local feeder hill as I was, it's a huge expense.

Second, PSIA is too much involved in ski area management. It should be an organization that looks out for its instructors, but unfortunately, many people (myself included) do not see it that way. It's in a weird trifecta. First, a lot of high PSIA members are high up in ski school management. Second, PSIA is bizarrely involved in advertising itself which I have never understood.... as literally every mountain I've ever heard of is a PSIA-accredited ski school....any third party ski instructing associations died out 40 years ago, so it's pretty pointless. Last, PSIA does not put its members first. They are not arguing for better instructor pay. They are not trying to fight for more benefits. They only put out education and certification standards.

Funny, I don’t remember anyone agreeing that private ski instructors were not cool. Also funny how you proceed to list reasons why it is cool.

 

[Hawk]

This whole thread makes me want to get a freelance lesson, not that I need one. But considering how infrequent it must occur, who realy cares. Unless you are one of those people who likes to bitch about something. In reality, it's going to happen, no one is going find out(unless you are stupid), and most importantly.....Who really gives a F*#K! I dont.

 

[Hawk]

Mountain official: HEY! are you taking a lesson from this guy!
Me: No he is my freind and is giving me some pointers. Now F-off!
Mountain Official: Grrrrr. and skis off.

 

[abc]

Maybe if the resorts didn't charge $1200 a day for a private lesson and only paid the instructor 120 then maybe there would be no need for it.

Yep!

And the customer is forced to choose between supporting exploitation over “theft of service”!

 

[Mainer]

My friend did a full day group lesson for his each of his 2 kids out west at $700 each. The instructors were j1s. I think they said it was 5 or 6 kids per lesson. Mountain made over $3000 a day per instructor. Kids still ski the same after. That people pay that kind of money is nuts for a lower intermediate lesson. If I wanted my kids to take a lesson, I’d certainly pay someone $500 under the table and save myself $900.

 

[ThatGuy]

My friend did a full day group lesson for his each of his 2 kids out west at $700 each. The instructors were j1s. I think they said it was 5 or 6 kids per lesson. Mountain made over $3000 a day per instructor. Kids still ski the same after. That people pay that kind of money is nuts for a lower intermediate lesson. If I wanted my kids to take a lesson, I’d certainly pay someone $500 under the table and save myself $900.

In my opinion once a kid is around intermediate level you should put them into privates or its just glorified babysitting (albeit the kids can still learn something and have fun). One on one is always going to yield better results if someone truly wants to learn.

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

​

what if the ski lessons are just an incidental path on the way to true enlightenment? can the rabbi still charge the $200?

​

​

A Course Offering​

Skiing Using Terminology of Jewish Mysticism​

Option 1: Ski "The 4-Worlds"
Option 2: Ski "The Sfirot"

---

Instuctor: Rabbi Joshua SegalRabbi Segal was ordained by the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati, OH.
In addition, Joshua Segal is a PSIA Certified Alpine Ski Instructor, having taught skiing since the 1978-1979 season.The Place: To Be DeterminedThe Course Syllabus:9 AM: Meet, boot up and discuss backgrounds and objectives of the participants.
9:30 AM - 11:30AM: 1. Discuss the specific objective of the run on the chairlift ride up
2. Ski the concept on the way down
3. Talk about it on the chairlift ride back up.
4. Repeat steps 1 to 3 (ski coaching provided as a part of the experience)11:30 to 1PM: Lunch and/or free ski
1PM - 3PM: Continue where the morning left off
Cost:
$200: You must supply your own lift ticket.
10 percent discount for those who are members of a synagogue or temple.
10 percent discount for those who belong to the Jewish Federation of New Hampshire

Student Requirements:

Skiing:No formal schedule is planned for the 2021-2 season. If interested, please send an inquiry to Rabbi Joshua Segal. The course will be designed around the skiing ability of the participant(s).Judaica: Some knowledge of Kabbalah or Jewish mysticism might be useful, but it is not required.
If interested, please send an inquiry to Rabbi Joshua Segal and we can schedule where and when.
Instructor's Statement:
The vast majority of truly advanced skiers have moved well beyond the pure physical sensations of skiing. For me and many like me, skiing is a transcendental experience which brings me into a spiritual space. At a younger point in my life, I couldn't put my finger on what it was. As I have gotten older, I am seeing skiing as a portal, from the physical world into the spiritual world.

In winter of 2003-4, I piloted a course titled, "Skiing, Using the Terminology of Jewish Mysticism." It was a resounding success. As such, I am offering it in the 2021-2 season on demand. If interested, please send an inquiry to me.

I hope to see you on the Mountain.

Le-sha-lom,
Joshua L. Segal

https://skikabbalah.com

 

[chuckstah]

​

what if the ski lessons are just an incidental path on the way to true enlightenment? can the rabbi still charge the $200?

​

​

A Course Offering​

Skiing Using Terminology of Jewish Mysticism​

Option 1: Ski "The 4-Worlds"
Option 2: Ski "The Sfirot"

---

Instuctor: Rabbi Joshua SegalRabbi Segal was ordained by the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati, OH.
In addition, Joshua Segal is a PSIA Certified Alpine Ski Instructor, having taught skiing since the 1978-1979 season.The Place: To Be DeterminedThe Course Syllabus:9 AM: Meet, boot up and discuss backgrounds and objectives of the participants.
9:30 AM - 11:30AM: 1. Discuss the specific objective of the run on the chairlift ride up
2. Ski the concept on the way down
3. Talk about it on the chairlift ride back up.
4. Repeat steps 1 to 3 (ski coaching provided as a part of the experience)11:30 to 1PM: Lunch and/or free ski
1PM - 3PM: Continue where the morning left off
Cost:
$200: You must supply your own lift ticket.
10 percent discount for those who are members of a synagogue or temple.
10 percent discount for those who belong to the Jewish Federation of New Hampshire

Student Requirements:

Skiing:No formal schedule is planned for the 2021-2 season. If interested, please send an inquiry to Rabbi Joshua Segal. The course will be designed around the skiing ability of the participant(s).Judaica: Some knowledge of Kabbalah or Jewish mysticism might be useful, but it is not required.
If interested, please send an inquiry to Rabbi Joshua Segal and we can schedule where and when.
Instructor's Statement:
The vast majority of truly advanced skiers have moved well beyond the pure physical sensations of skiing. For me and many like me, skiing is a transcendental experience which brings me into a spiritual space. At a younger point in my life, I couldn't put my finger on what it was. As I have gotten older, I am seeing skiing as a portal, from the physical world into the spiritual world.

In winter of 2003-4, I piloted a course titled, "Skiing, Using the Terminology of Jewish Mysticism." It was a resounding success. As such, I am offering it in the 2021-2 season on demand. If interested, please send an inquiry to me.

I hope to see you on the Mountain.

Le-sha-lom,
Joshua L. Segal

https://skikabbalah.com

Joshua Segal is on this forum, although I haven't seen him post in a while. He is a die-hard skier based at Crotched, and is a patroller and instructor. I always take some runs with him when ever I run into him. I'm sure he would have made that class lots of fun.

 

[Kevin Schultz]

This reminds me of Uber and NYC Taxi Medallions. It was clearly illegal for Uber to come in and undercut the yellow cabs. They blatantly ignored that as a business strategy. Their bet was that with the general public on their side due to the superior customer experience there would be enough pressure on lawmakers to change the laws. Because ultimately the laws are downstream of public opinion. It's not even clear in this case that the law is obviously against freelance instructors. There's a lot of assertions and there's T&C on the lift ticket, but a law can absolutely supersede the writing on the back of a lift ticket.

Basically, someone in New Hampshire where everyone is tired of Vail should make an Uber for Ski Instructors and see what happens. If it paid enough to the instructors and offered enough of a discount to the customers it would probably gain pretty good marketshare.

 

[Smellytele]

on a side note a few weeks ago I tried to get an uber in Cleveland to the airport. They wanted over $150 I called a limo service and got a ride for $90.

 

[Bond James Bond]

Mountain official: HEY! are you taking a lesson from this guy!
Me: No he is my freind and is giving me some pointers. Now F-off!
Mountain Official: Grrrrr. and skis off.

I love the sentiment Hawk. I just got called out on it last week. It was an extremely slow day. "We've been watching you", the woman said. I had a family of bunny slopers to start with but was with them for 2 1/2 days. But for the "f... off", I told her the same thing. "Ive been teaching my friends to ski my whole adult ski life. I'm not stealing anything from you." They approached the father of my ski family also with a similar gestapo "we've been watching you" threat. Then threw in the "you better have a ticket" just for the thrill of it. Truth is, they were closing in 2 days and had nothing to offer the folks who bought tickets including a base lodge that was closed, in the rain. Who's the thief? My take is that I never never never solicit at an area. Arrangements between me and my people are made independent of any area. They take me along. I go where they go. Where is the obvious signage or notice at the ticket booth that by purchasing a ticket to use their lifts, you agree to their greedy exclusivity? Is it theft of services to bring your own lunch and eat it in their lodge even though they offer food service? I never saw that on a ticket or at a ticket booth. Is it theft of services to bring your own nanny on vacation with you and to the mountain too? Why don't they sue the private ski rental businesses downtown that "steal" their rental business from them. Interesting how consistent they are not.