Ideal temperature range to learn bumps in spring?

[Cheese]

Free Scotty! I post where I'm at every weekend!

 

[Cheese]

Carve the ski. The tails should follow the tips in a nice arc. If you are able to skid or slide your tails that means your hips are too far back.

Carve a 24 meter ski around 1 meter bump?

 

[mister moose]

I'm planning to learn how to ski mogul this spring. What do people think is the ideal temperature range to learn bumps in the spring? (Too warm and the snow will be too grabby and falls will be too wet. I'm looking for moderately softened snow that will slow you down a bit but not too much.)

No such thing as too warm. Get some goretex pants for the moisture. One of my most fun bump runs ever was splashing through a snowmelt brook that was filling the troughs. Talk about skiing the zipper line - that was skiing the brookline.

No such thing as too grabby snow.

There are other factors you haven't considered:
What is the best pitch for learning? - find an easier blue slope
What is the best bump shape for learning? gentler shallower, rounder bumps first.

How many days this spring are you allotting to learn?
What is your current skill level? (in detail)

Lastly, ideal days are rare. Go find a mountain that has lots of bumped terrain and find some easy bumps to start on. The only day you should avoid is today, ie a frozen concrete cold day after a soaking rain event.

In the great Cheese - DH debate, I think there is middle ground. Yes, dive in to learn how to swim. But not without first learning how to hold your breath and paddle. DH I think is assuming sufficient skill already exists to build on. Cheese is saying obtain sufficient basic skills first.

You can't learn absorbtion in the flats, agreed. But if you don't have the balance on each foot individually, the ability to keep your feet under you, and the quick instinctive foot steering skills, I think you are going to be playing catch-up ball for a very long time. And lets face it, no matter what your bump style is, you better have quads that can deliver.

Many intermediate skiers still have a weak foot that hinders a turn in one direction. This has to get flushed out in the flats first.

 

[JimG.]

What is the best pitch for learning? - find an easier blue slope
What is the best bump shape for learning? gentler shallower, rounder bumps first.

Lastly, ideal days are rare. Go find a mountain that has lots of bumped terrain and find some easy bumps to start on. The only day you should avoid is today, ie a frozen concrete cold day after a soaking rain event.

All very true.

Not easy to find green or blue bump lines at most mountains. Few allow them to build up.

 

[New Daddy]

How many days this spring are you allotting to learn?
What is your current skill level? (in detail)

Between now and early April, I'm hoping to spend at least 4 days on the hill. I know that's not much, but that's all I've got.
I'm a very decent skier on flats. True black diamond skier.

Go find a mountain that has lots of bumped terrain and find some easy bumps to start on.

any recommendation? Does WaWa fit the bill?

And lets face it, no matter what your bump style is, you better have quads that can deliver.

Ok, that about kills it.

 

[mister moose]

Between now and early April, I'm hoping to spend at least 4 days on the hill. I know that's not much, but that's all I've got.
I'm a very decent skier on flats. True black diamond skier.

any recommendation? Does WaWa fit the bill?

Ok, that about kills it.

What happens after early April?

I'm primarilly a Killington skier, so that's all I can advise you on. Don't know crap about Wawa. However, any mountain that gets sufficient traffic will bump up by afternoon in just one day above 45 degrees. Generally speaking. Depends on aspect, previous nights low, degree of overcast, snow density, a dozen factors, there is no set formula. Seek out high traffic light blue collector trails after 1:30pm (Assuming they bump up), and lap them.

At Killington, Ridge Run is perfect. Upper Wildfire is good right now, not too steep but bigger bumps. The blue part of Great Bear. Vagabond is superb learning bumps right now. Well, once it warms up above freezing.

If you can make slow but sharp, controlled turns both directions in the bumps, your quads will last longer. With speed comes fatigue, and just a little bit faster brings a surprising amount of increased quad burn. If you find you can't make linked turns in the bumps at a slow enough pace without consistently skipping bumps or blowing the line, then that's when we send you back to the flats to learn to turn faster/sharper with more precision.

 

[New Daddy]

What happens after early April?

I'm assuming that's when my day-trip destinations will close for season - WaWa, Gunstock, Sunapee and Ragged. K-town is too far for day-trips.

Thanks for your tips on learning bumps. Really helpful!

 

[ScottySkis]

Free Scotty! I post where I'm at every weekend!

? I don't always. Just having fun.

 

[Cheese]

In the great Cheese - DH debate, I think there is middle ground. Yes, dive in to learn how to swim. But not without first learning how to hold your breath and paddle. DH I think is assuming sufficient skill already exists to build on. Cheese is saying obtain sufficient basic skills first.

I think you nailed it here Moose. Also perhaps a quicker path to learning. I'd guess that both DH and I learned the long hard way and had to correct for some bad habits along the way. Sure, we know what we're doing now, but when I see how fast they can teach kids today, it's obvious that I took the long road. In January I see kids with no poles quick turning down through brushes that the coach put in the snow. In March I see them zip lining the bumps and working on their back flip on the kickers. I'm not saying that the OP wants to get to this level, just that the learning process can be expedited if taught properly.

 

[hammer]

I think you nailed it here Moose. Also perhaps a quicker path to learning. I'd guess that both DH and I learned the long hard way and had to correct for some bad habits along the way. Sure, we know what we're doing now, but when I see how fast they can teach kids today, it's obvious that I took the long road. In January I see kids with no poles quick turning down through brushes that the coach put in the snow. In March I see them zip lining the bumps and working on their back flip on the kickers. I'm not saying that the OP wants to get to this level, just that the learning process can be expedited if taught properly.

Agree with that except most adults looking to improve don't have the opportunity to learn in structured lessons. That said, I'd like to see the brush setup at more places...saw a small course at Bretton Woods last weekend and over the years I did have chances to play around with the brushes at Crotched and Ragged.

 

[jack97]

I'm assuming that's when my day-trip destinations will close for season - WaWa, Gunstock, Sunapee and Ragged. K-town is too far for day-trips.

IMO, in order to get better at skiing bumps, you have to seek them out. I think wachusett bumps fields are seeded badly and a newbie
trying to learn on them will get screwed up in other fields. I have not been to Ragged since the new ownership but they use to let several natural trails bump up, so some amount of intel is needed on that place. Gunstock may be out of my drive time so i have no opinion of that place.

IMO, the best place to learn are the seeded bumps at Sunnapee, Lift line which is in the bowl. Ski Sundown, Gunbarrel has a long section. Crotched has a field in the upper park trail. Several seasons ago, Mount Snow had several feilds with different pitches.

As for next season, keep an eye out for places that seed a field early, most of the places I have mention does this. And Nashoba Valley lets a field bump up but thats only after a mid season dump.

 

[JimG.]

IMO, in order to get better at skiing bumps, you have to seek them out.

IMO, the best place to learn are the seeded bumps at Sunnapee, Lift line which is in the bowl. Ski Sundown, Gunbarrel has a long section. Crotched has a field in the upper park trail. Several seasons ago, Mount Snow had several feilds with different pitches.

As for next season, keep an eye out for places that seed a field early, most of the places I have mention does this.

This.

And try to get to them in their infancy; help ski them in at whatever pitch is most comfortable for you. This will help your comfort zone by creating muscle memory that will serve well when they get big. Don't go for pitches that seem steep to you. Skiing bumps is about flow and rhythm. And I am in favor of flats training on the steeper pitches you need practice on.

Read Dan DiPiro's book; search his name here and you will find threads about it. He is a PSIA certified coach who knows how to ski bumps and believes the World Cup method of skiing bumps is the right way. And it is.

For younger skiers, but adaptable to older skiers too.

 

[Blanton]

Carve a 24 meter ski around 1 meter bump?

I've spent a lot of time skiing with former world cup skiers, Olympic medalists, and people that coach them for a living. I don't know what your skiing background is but that's mine. I offered some advice and have corrected a few things that are inaccurate.

For what it is worth USSA and FIS events space the moguls roughly 3.5 x 1.7. Anymore, non seeded bumps are rarely that tight.

The Canadian team has a great website full of videos that illustrate how to edge and steer your skis. Check it out at the following link:
http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/technical-skiing-module-1/

 

[ScottySkis]

-024
:beer:

 

[Cheese]

I've spent a lot of time skiing with former world cup skiers, Olympic medalists, and people that coach them for a living. I don't know what your skiing background is but that's mine. I offered some advice and have corrected a few things that are inaccurate.

For what it is worth USSA and FIS events space the moguls roughly 3.5 x 1.7. Anymore, non seeded bumps are rarely that tight.

The Canadian team has a great website full of videos that illustrate how to edge and steer your skis. Check it out at the following link:
http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/technical-skiing-module-1/

Fair enough, my mogul was too small. But I still question the ability to carve a 24 meter ski around a 3 - 4 meter bump.

I visited the link and found no reference to carving in moguls. Can you point me more directly to where they recommend carving as the proper method for either USSA or FIS moguls?

 

[New Daddy]

I visited the link and found no reference to carving in moguls. Can you point me more directly to where they recommend carving as the proper method for either USSA or FIS?

I've wondered about that too - why carving is not preached in mogul skiing. For example, Dan DiPiro's book says at the outset that you need to use more "rotary force" to ride moguls. His explanation is that carved turns take long time to execute, which short-spaced moguls don't allow.

It doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't carve in moguls. Below is a video of a former Olympian Japanese alpine skier. It's not pure carving, but I definitely see more carved turns than with world cup freestylers. I think it's elegant.

http://youtu.be/Hwov50RX_sw?t=4m43s

 

[mister moose]

I still question the ability to carve a 24 meter ski around a 3 - 4 meter bump.

I visited the link and found no reference to carving in moguls. Can you point me more directly to where they recommend carving as the proper method for either USSA or FIS moguls?

For sanctioned competitive events, the concept of "Proper method" has merit. This discussion though is more about how to ski moguls well for fun. and for that, I submit that there is no "proper" way.

Method 1. Ski the troughs, full absorbtion, skis stay more aligned with the fall line. Subtype: Shoulder dippers.
Method 2. Ski the troughs, but contact underfoot is optional.
Method 3. Ski the troughs, skis swish more fully out of the fall line. Sub type: Classic crash and bash.
Method 4. Ski the middle fronts, making turns across the front, crossing the trough to the next front. You are out of the troughs but not on the tops.
Method 5. Ski the tops turning on the top and finishing the turn on the back down to the trough. Subtype: Modified crash and bash.
Method 6. Ski the tops turning on the top but finish the turn well before the trough. Point the ski towards the next target top. Cross the trough to the next top.

And there are probably more. I use all these depending on the shape and conditions of the day. I have the most trouble with #2, and I'm not sure if my knees will let me do a lot of it.

I submit that method 4 carves the turn, and the ski is deeply flexed by the shape of the bump. Because the terrain flexes the ski, side cut matters less. Edge a little with the ski that flexed and a 2x4 would turn. You are turning in the cereal bowl, and it feels like steep banked turns in succession. When the bumps have the right rounded shape for this it's a gas.

I use method 6 on powder days when the troughs get skied out. Nobody skis the tops. It's like seconds on Thanksgiving.

The thing about "proper form" is that the shape of bumps is constantly changing. If everyone starts using the exact same method in the same track, you know what you get? Ruts. Bumps are more fun than ruts.

 

[jack97]

to the OP (and anybody interested)....

Crotched has a nice low angle bump section at Upper Park, over on skiers right. Today, I was lapping that along with bumps at Jupiter Storm. I was able to get a nice line going, I got rid of some of the cross ruts and death cookies. The place may get a good dump Tues, if so, that's a good trail to start bumping.

 

[New Daddy]

to the OP (and anybody interested)....

Crotched has a nice low angle bump section at Upper Park, over on skiers right. Today, I was lapping that along with bumps at Jupiter Storm. I was able to get a nice line going, I got rid of some of the cross ruts and death cookies. The place may get a good dump Tues, if so, that's a good trail to start bumping.

Thanks! Crotched is not usually on my destination list, but I'll check it out one of these days.

 

[mister moose]

This weekend will be off the hook for bump trails and their fans. Do what you have to do to get out there both days. You have 4 days to get the honey do list negotiated, buy the tickets on Liftopia, gas the car, pack your bags, call your friends, and throw some beer money in your ski jacket.