Ideas - Dropping the ropes for the qualified

[billski]

I've been thinking about this "dropping the ropes" notion for quite a while now. I'm sure this has been thought through by ski area management, but I'll raise it here from a consumer's perspective.

How about a multi-tiered ticket system? Skill-based. Make us pass a test. Those who pass, can ski "closed" trails. Make us sign the mother of all liability releases. We get a special ID. Make us pay a deposit or work for free or something. Make us bring the whole BC kit on our backs, bring a radio and help those in distress. Resort does one sweep per day, at day's end.
Could we not assume the same kind of rules that apply to BC in general?

Western ski area have vast bowls that simply cannot be roped off. Don't they face the same issue? How do they deal with it?

Am I off base here? Is the real issue that wannabes will follow behind and get themselves in real trouble? This must have been discussed before.

 

[dmc]

I think it kinda happens unofficially at some areas...

Ski Patrol may turn a blind eye to someone that looks like they are adapting well to the terrain as opposed to someone floundering..

This is all unofficial of course..

 

[CapeSkier]

I respect your ability and confidence, but I can't agree with the idea. I believe too many non-qualified skiers/boarders would try to go where they should not. Regardless of the waiver/test, etc., it would still lead to an insurance nightmare for the resort. In the west, the geography makes the situation different, but I would readily believe that there are more than a few people being rescued from places they really have no right to be, in terms of ability. It's easy for someone to believe they can handle something in terms of terrain, etc. and then when reality sets in, they are well in over their heads, and quite possibly injured. Patrollers see it frequently. I'm sure you can handle it, but many of those who would follow in your tracks will likely not share that level of skill.

 

[billski]

I respect your ability and confidence, but I can't agree with the idea. I believe too many non-qualified skiers/boarders would try to go where they should not. Regardless of the waiver/test, etc., it would still lead to an insurance nightmare for the resort. In the west, the geography makes the situation different, but I would readily believe that there are more than a few people being rescued from places they really have no right to be, in terms of ability. It's easy for someone to believe they can handle something in terms of terrain, etc. and then when reality sets in, they are well in over their heads, and quite possibly injured. Patrollers see it frequently. I'm sure you can handle it, but many of those who would follow in your tracks will likely not share that level of skill.

I anticipated this as much in my comments. It all comes down to control and enforcement - it becomes impossible to manage. I think dmc takes a more pragmatic approach.

 

[dmc]

I think dmc takes a more pragmatic approach.

Many things already "are"...
But these things may not be avaiable to someone imediately. It takes time, understanding and respect for the sport and those who keep us safe..

I need a beer...

 

[Greg]

Signs

I think a better approach would be a more extensive use of "Thin Cover" signs. Perhaps even "Moguls" or "Bumps" signs. Unfortunately a lot of people are somewhat delusional about their skill. This might be due to signs like the ones on trails like Outer Limits that ask if you're an expert. "You better be!" And then self-proclaimed expert continues on to find a groomed OL. :roll: I like the sign at the bottom of Castlerock though:

That one's pretty accurate.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well, some times closed terrain is closed for a specific reason and it is not because people don't have the skills to ski it. For example, a trail with snowmaking on it, or grooming operations is not safe. Nor a trail that has little or no cover.

I think we need to leave the discretion as to what should and should not be open to the ski patrol. In general, the places I ski have been fairly liberal about what can and cannot be open based on cover. Heck, Stowe was letting folks ski and hike across grass/mud two years ago when I was there. I don't think for insurance and liability reasons you can go much further.

 

[snoseek]

I've been thinking about this "dropping the ropes" notion for quite a while now. I'm sure this has been thought through by ski area management, but I'll raise it here from a consumer's perspective.

How about a multi-tiered ticket system? Skill-based. Make us pass a test. Those who pass, can ski "closed" trails. Make us sign the mother of all liability releases. We get a special ID. Make us pay a deposit or work for free or something. Make us bring the whole BC kit on our backs, bring a radio and help those in distress. Resort does one sweep per day, at day's end.
Could we not assume the same kind of rules that apply to BC in general?

Western ski area have vast bowls that simply cannot be roped off. Don't they face the same issue? How do they deal with it?

Am I off base here? Is the real issue that wannabes will follow behind and get themselves in real trouble? This must have been discussed before.

Sounds to me like you need to spend more time away from the resort. I think because our society is so lawsuit crazy, areas need to be very careful. In the west it is even more controlled because the stakes are higher. usually you have to enter steep terrain through gates, so really whole areas are roped off, only open if the gate is dropped by patrol. Much less trail poaching out west. Places like alta ect... can and will arrest you and impound your skis if caught.


edit- if the mountain is "saving it for the weekend" then tuck your pass and do it.

 

[JD]

That's kind of how it used to work at Stowe. The good old days seem to be over though. People getting passed pulled for aceing closed, but filled in lines. Used to just get a nod.

 

[tjf67]

I think keeping the ropes on trails is a good thing. Very seldom do you get people in there that dont know what they are doing. They dropped the ropes on Empire yesterday. I was ripping down through there and there was a child stopped in the middle. He asked me what trail he was on. I told him empire but it feels like whos your daddy trail. He was nervous but got out of there fine. My point is the day before when the ropes were up there was not a single person in there that did not belong.

 

[castlerock]

What is the big deal about skiing a closed trail? It is closed for a reason. If you want to ski freshies, get into the woods. If you can't handle the woods, you aren't good enough to ski a closed trail safely.

If you can ski the woods, you are able to get anywhere you want within in a ski area safely and surreptitiously anyway.

 

[billski]

What is the big deal about skiing a closed trail? It is closed for a reason. If you want to ski freshies, get into the woods. If you can't handle the woods, you aren't good enough to ski a closed trail safely.

If you can ski the woods, you are able to get anywhere you want within in a ski area safely and surreptitiously anyway.

While i can handle the woods just fine, I'm not about to try it if not familiar with the terrain. I sometimes simply don't know where it's going to come out. I could end up where I don't want to be and it could be a major PITA to get out.

 

[castlerock]

I'm not about to try it if not familiar with the terrain. I sometimes simply don't know where it's going to come out. I could end up where I don't want to be and it could be a major PITA to get out.

All true......It is always fun to learn though..I've had my share of hiking back up and out of the wrong places.

 

[eatskisleep]

Exploring the woods is always good fun, but what looks like a trail can lead to 25 minutes of bushwacking on a 35+ degree slope.

But the reward can be great:

 

[tomski]

What is the obsession people on these Internet forums have with skiing closed terrain? I aee the same threads on the Killington board all teh time.

 

[campgottagopee]

What is the obsession people on these Internet forums have with skiing closed terrain? I aee the same threads on the Killington board all teh time.

Um, well, could have something to do with untracked snow???? I think we've all skied closed trails and are willing to except whatever comes our way ifin we get caught. I ski closed trails and enjoy doing it.

 

[millerm277]

What is the obsession people on these Internet forums have with skiing closed terrain? I aee the same threads on the Killington board all teh time.

Untracked powder? Getting away from the crowds? Something different?

I'd like to see more "Thin Cover" signs, and possibly even "Walking Required" signs. I know of a few trails at Killington that may have a small section that gets hit heavily by the sun, but the rest of them will stay in great conditions for days/weeks afterward, yet the trail will get closed, because there is a 10ft gap of no snow.

 

[dmc]

What is the obsession people on these Internet forums have with skiing closed terrain?

...snow...

 

[lloyd braun]

I like your progressive thinking but it will not happen. And our resorts out west with "vast bowls" do remained closed untill safe.

We are still dealing with slope openings here. You can gain access to the closed trails by getting a "tour" from the patrol around here. You are required to have a becon, probe, and shovel however. I think the main reason for trail closings out here is for control work or lack of it. There are also rescue issues with closed trails.(sleds placed, access out for injured, and staffing)

Last year we had a pro skier venture into a closed area, set off a slide, and subsequently be buried and killed. He had the skill but the outcome was not good.

I always have liked the idea about a tiered skill system, but who would provide the appoval and how would these judges be absolved from liability.

 

[riverc0il]

Patrol, especially volunteer patrol, do not like playing police man and enforcing rules. This would only add to their head aches. My approach is don't ski mountains that don't open terrain when they should and patronize mountains that give skiers credit for assessing their own abilities (Magic, Jay, and MRG all come to mind instantly on the latter).