Is 4WD/AWD a neccesity on your ski vehicle?

[BenedictGomez]

So true.

Not really. And not born out by the testing I've seen.

The brutal truth is that the "snow tires are way more important than 4WD" mantra is nearly universally uttered by individuals who do not currently own a 4WD vehicle (Somebody had to finally say it, because it's not like a ton of people in this thread arent thinking it).

 

[Gilligan]

Not really. And not born out by the testing I've seen.

The brutal truth is that the "snow tires are way more important than 4WD" mantra is nearly universally uttered by individuals who do not currently own a 4WD vehicle (Somebody had to finally say it, because it's not like a ton of people in this thread arent thinking it).

Yes, really.

I used to own a FWD vehicle and now own an AWD vehicle. I used to drive it with all-seasons and I was disappointed in its performance in the harshest conditions - ice, heavy wet snow, etc. I switched to snow tires and the difference was amazing. Much more of a difference than when I first switched to AWD.

Snow tires help you go, stop, and corner. 4WD/AWD only helps you go. That is the brutal truth.

 

[mlctvt]

Road & track did a test of cars that were offered in both 2wd and AWD, they fitted snow tires to the 2wd versions and kept the All-season tires on the AWD versions. In all cases the 2WD with snows out performed the AWD with all-season tires in snow adn ice conditions. Tires are the most important for winter conditions not the number of wheels driven.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/page-10---all-wheel-drive-sport-sedans
from the article
"Second, and a related question, "Which is better, one of our awd competitors on all-season tires, or its front- or rear-drive counterpart on dedicated summer or winter rubber?" Summer is a close call; but winter isn't. All-wheel drive has its benefits in the snow, but not the 28-30 percent offered by dedicated snow tires. And awd won't help at all when it comes to stopping in snow. "

 

[ScottySkis]

Road & track did a test of cars that were offered in both 2wd and AWD, they fitted snow tires to the 2wd versions and kept the All-season tires on the AWD versions. In all cases the 2WD with snows out performed the AWD with all-season tires in snow adn ice conditions. Tires are the most important for winter conditions not the number of wheels driven.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/page-10---all-wheel-drive-sport-sedans

Well just got my first set of snow tires ever so I will sure find out soon hopefully.

 

[C-Rex]

This has turned into an argument between conservative, practical people and people who allow a little more passion into their lives. Both groups will never be able to make the other see their side, so why try? Different strokes and all that, right? Just don't knock someone's way of seeing things just because its not the same as your view.

Point is AWD with snows IS the best way to go. Whether its necessary or not depends on where and how you drive, the type of road conditions you're willing to take on, and your willingness to deal with getting stuck. No, AWD will not make you invincible. The ability to go has little to do with how you turn and nothing to do with how you stop.

All I know is when I'm in a buried parking lot, I often see guys in FWD cars with snows struggling to dig themselves out. And I see their faces when I hop in my car and back right out with no digging. Sure, those guys will get where they're going eventually, but I'd rather do it with ease.

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[El Bishop]

Next question: When do you put snows on? I live in Boston but plan to be driving to VT almost every weekend between now and Spring. Car doesn't get driven much during the week so is now the time to put them on? Thanks

 

[KD7000]

Last weekend. You're late!

 

[WWF-VT]

Next question: When do you put snows on? I live in Boston but plan to be driving to VT almost every weekend between now and Spring. Car doesn't get driven much during the week so is now the time to put them on? Thanks

I put them on first week of December but wished I had done it last week. I have an AWD vehicle and drove in a white out on Saturday night and a snow covered roads to the mountain on Sunday.

 

[Cheese]

Next question: When do you put snows on? I live in Boston but plan to be driving to VT almost every weekend between now and Spring. Car doesn't get driven much during the week so is now the time to put them on? Thanks

To get the most tread life possible out of your snows, wait till the temps are consistently at or below 45ºF.

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Let the disagreements begin ...

 

[hammer]

This all has me thinking a lot about getting snows for my daughter's Ford Focus...she doesn't drive far but the current tires are so-so on dry pavement as it is.

 

[Hawkshot99]

To get the most tread life possible out of your snows, wait till the temps are consistently at or below 45ºF.

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Let the disagreements begin ...

Guy who works for me runs his snows year round. Says they are far supior to regular tires, and that there is no difference to the life of the tire....
(I dont listen to him)

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[Gilligan]

All I know is when I'm in a buried parking lot, I often see guys in FWD cars with snows struggling to dig themselves out. And I see their faces when I hop in my car and back right out with no digging. Sure, those guys will get where they're going eventually, but I'd rather do it with ease.

Are you sure that look is "I am so envious of his 4WD" and not "I cannot believe that guy just drove away and left me stuck here" ?

 

[dmc]

Are you sure that look is "I am so envious of his 4WD" and not "I cannot believe that guy just drove away and left me stuck here" ?

I've come back to the airport after work travel to find my car buried in snow in the parking lot..
I keep an avi shovel in my car... But most times I just blast right out of the snow..

 

[mister moose]

A few more things should be added here.

All tires aren't equal. All season tire A will be different in snow than all season tire B. The highest rated in snow all season will produce an owner that feels stronger than one that has all seasons that are lousy in snow. (Not saying they will ever replace snow tires)

As was mentioned earlier, low profile tires give 2 strikes against you right out of the box. AWD like an Audi S4 doesn't mean didly in the snow if you're on 40 series 'all season' touring tires. Get into AWD on 75 series tires and the difference in snow traction is large, the difference between move or not move.

Driving skill is part of the equation. I wouldn't doubt that 9 times out of 10 a skilled driver in FWD will not get stuck or go off the road where the less skilled driver will in AWD. If you don't understand the difference between static and kinetic friction, and can't apply that to your driving when the wheels start to let go, you won't have as good an outcome as the driver that can. Understanding momentum management is key as well.

And of course the roads and conditions we drive frequently aren't the same.

These variables lead to differences in opinion, but really part of what is going on is unequal equipment and experience.

 

[C-Rex]

Are you sure that look is "I am so envious of his 4WD" and not "I cannot believe that guy just drove away and left me stuck here" ?

Positive. He was digging his car out and, like an A-hole, had thrown a bunch of the snow behind my car. Typical self-centered, Jersey d-bag. The look was more like, " I can't believe I spent the last 20 minutes digging and he just got in and drove away."

I hate when people try to drive in conditions that their car has no business being in. They're the same schmucks that say FWD will get you there just fine when in reality they struggled up every hill with a line of properly kitted cars pissed off behind them, and almost slid through every intersection. Just because you can make it work, doesn't mean you should.

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[dmc]

One of the best things you can do to get good at driving in the snow - is to know when to NOT drive in the snow and just wait..

 

[x10003q]

One of the best things you can do to get good at driving in the snow - is to know when to NOT drive in the snow and just wait..

Smartest post in the thread.

 

[mlctvt]

I posted some scientific proof earlier, here is another article although a bit old that comes to the exact same solution. Testing of AWD with all season vs 2wd with snow tires.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-traction-test-what-price-traction

conclusion reads
"Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive. If it snows a lot in those hilly places, they should probably invest in winter tires, too. Even flat-landers who happen to have steep driveways may wish to consider a four-wheel-driver. Almost everyone else will most likely be better served by using winter tires. Acceleration takes longer, but in an emergency, the handling behavior and improved lateral grip of two-wheel drive and winter tires -- in the slippery stuff -- are the safer bets.
Winter tires boosted the rwd Benz's acceleration times more than they did the fwd Audi's, but in almost every other test, the inherently front-heavy Audis derived more benefit from the winter rubber than did the more evenly balanced Benzes. This finding certainly suggests that front-drive cars benefit from winter tires as much or more than rear-drivers do.
And finally, unless snow or ice covers your roads many times in a winter, the snow benefits of winter tires may not outweigh their drawbacks on dry pavement. "

Since skiers need to go up hills to get the mountains C-Rex is right AWD with Snow tires is the best option.

One thing I've seen is most people over estimate their driving skills. Most drivers think they're far better drivers than they actually are. Your first day at an Autcocross, skid pad car control clinic, or a track day can be a very humbling experience.

 

[The Sneak]

mlvct thanks for the details on autocross. my father has an NB Miata w/ltd slip. It's getting some fresh suspension this winter (FCM stops, bilsteins etc). I think I might have to borrow it more often and try my hand at a/x....

 

[AdironRider]

Im doing a bit of an experiment this year. Got rid of the POS Subaru Forester (wife has stolen the keys to FJ it looks like permanently) and will be rocking an 87 BMW 325 all winter this year. Got the studs on in back and going to give it hell this winter, will update with the guaranteed ensuing hilarity as I promptly wrap this into a snowbank.