Is 4WD/AWD a neccesity on your ski vehicle?

[x10003q]

Me too. I've got 16 extra wheels tires on a rack in my garage. 3 sets of snow tires/rims for the cars we drive in winter, the other set is race tires for the Miata that gets garaged in winter. An extra set of wheels/snows is a small investment in the big scheme of things. It amazes me that people spend $35K-40K on a car but balk at spending an extra $800-$1000 on winter wheels /tires.

The added benefit is we can run summer Ultra performance tires Summer only tires in Summer so we get the best of both worlds. I always hated "all season" tires, they're compromise tires, they suck at everything and are good at nothing.

You do realize this delusional thought that you need Ultra performance summer only tires is just a way for the tire companies to extract more money from your wallet. I am pretty sure you are doing the bulk of your driving way below the limits of the tires. The soft compounds get ground up pretty quickly in normal driving. Some versions of these tires are not good in wet weather either.

I have been running all seasons on my awd cars for over 20 years without any problems. The all seasons are better than snows for 95% of my driving in the winter and during the summer they work fine for my driving style.

 

[mister moose]

I've never had 4WD or snow tires on any car I've owned. I'm a big believer in "keep your speed down in adverse weather conditions and you'll be fine."

Because you have yet to:
■ Try to pull out of a steep uphill road from a dead stop on a snow covered road.
■Hit black ice
■Drive on unplowed roads in 6" or more of snow
■Drive on a day where the snow hit warm pavement created goo and then snowed a few inches on top of that.
■Drive in an area where they don't sand and salt the roads very much, and it snows over 100" a year.


If all you drive is plowed and sanded roads with ocasional forays from a snowy level parking lot to said plowed and sanded road, then you will do fine with all seasons at your slower speed.

You do realize this delusional thought that you need Ultra performance summer only tires is just a way for the tire companies to extract more money from your wallet. I am pretty sure you are doing the bulk of your driving way below the limits of the tires. The soft compounds get ground up pretty quickly in normal driving. Some versions of these tires are not good in wet weather either.

I have been running all seasons on my awd cars for over 20 years without any problems. The all seasons are better than snows for 95% of my driving in the winter and during the summer they work fine for my driving style.

Right. Your driving style. High performance summer tires are for enthusiasts who like to pull more than .2 Gs in a turn, and like the added braking performance. This of course comes at a steep price. People who buy snow tires, or HP summer tires for that matter, aren't buying them for "95%" of the time. They are buying them for the 5% of the time they make that difference, and that difference is substantial.

 

[planb420]

I'm not gonna say its an absolute deal breaker...but I WILL SAY it was the difference maker that got me out the morning after the Nemo storm into the best pow of my life.

 

[KD7000]

You do realize this delusional thought that you need Ultra performance summer only tires is just a way for the tire companies to extract more money from your wallet.

I never claimed to need summer tires. I just like them a lot more, as they make driving more fun.

I have been running all seasons on my awd cars for over 20 years without any problems. The all seasons are better than snows for 95% of my driving in the winter and during the summer they work fine for my driving style.

Honest question: Have you ever lived north of Jersey where there can be snow on the roads during most of winter?

Nobody ever said you can't get by on all-seasons; plenty of people do. But to deny the advantages of dedicated seasonal tires is somewhat ignorant. As a relevant comparison, it's like skiing on rental skis vs. skis you chose- ones that are tailored for your abilities and style.


And as far as the money thing goes: I paid less for my recent snow tires than I did for my snowboard!

 

[steamboat1]

Countless snowy mornings I've seen cars with only front or rear wheel drive that can't make the last incline up to the K-1 lodge from Snowshed/Ramshead & are forced to park at either Ramshead or Snowshed. This is on a road that has been plowed but is still snow covered. While they're fish tailing & spinning there tires I just drive around them with AWD like I was on a dry road. I know on those powder mornings I'd much rather be at K-1 so I could take either the gondi, superstar chair or Snowdon chair to catch those early morning powder runs instead of first having to take the Snowshed or Ramshead chairs to get to them. This alone makes AWD/4WD worth it.

 

[x10003q]

I never claimed to need summer tires. I just like them a lot more, as they make driving more fun.

Most so called "enthusiasts" (maybe not you) could drive identical cars with summer tires vs high end all season tires and not tell the difference.

Honest question: Have you ever lived north of Jersey where there can be snow on the roads during most of winter?

I have owned a place at Gore for 25 years.

Nobody ever said you can't get by on all-seasons; plenty of people do. But to deny the advantages of dedicated seasonal tires is somewhat ignorant. As a relevant comparison, it's like skiing on rental skis vs. skis you chose- ones that are tailored for your abilities and style.


And as far as the money thing goes: I paid less for my recent snow tires than I did for my snowboard!

I put snows on my front drive cars. I have never had a problem with my AWD cars and all season tires.

 

[goldsbar]

You do realize this delusional thought that you need Ultra performance summer only tires is just a way for the tire companies to extract more money from your wallet. I am pretty sure you are doing the bulk of your driving way below the limits of the tires. The soft compounds get ground up pretty quickly in normal driving. Some versions of these tires are not good in wet weather either.

I have been running all seasons on my awd cars for over 20 years without any problems. The all seasons are better than snows for 95% of my driving in the winter and during the summer they work fine for my driving style.

Yes! Thank you. I've had summer tires (came with car) and don't understand the obsession. Performance all seasons are really, really good these days. Sure, summer tires grip a little better. They can also let go really fast while all seasons can be more progressive and more fun to drive for those of us - meaning just about all of us despite what we think - who don't have pro driver skills.

 

[ALLSKIING]

For summer I usually use skinnies up front and slicks in the rear...

 

[JDMRoma]

My only obsession is I want Dedicated Snows on my AWD in Winter….but hey thats my dime, when my stock summer 17 inch tires wear out I will go with a Rain tire, something like my last Michelin Hydro edges….passed down to my daughter on my last car. I drive 100 miles a day, rain tires really help cutting through the deep puddles on 128 in those flash floods ! So with 2 sets, I get the best of both seasons……F it its only money !

 

[mlctvt]

You do realize this delusional thought that you need Ultra performance summer only tires is just a way for the tire companies to extract more money from your wallet. I am pretty sure you are doing the bulk of your driving way below the limits of the tires. The soft compounds get ground up pretty quickly in normal driving. Some versions of these tires are not good in wet weather either.

I have been running all seasons on my awd cars for over 20 years without any problems. The all seasons are better than snows for 95% of my driving in the winter and during the summer they work fine for my driving style.

I used to be a performance driving instructor so I like the feel of the road; I'm willing so send a few extra bucks to have the best tire I can get for my car. I probably drive a bit more aggressive than the normal driver. Plus I can go to Autocrosses and not have to change tires to full race rubber like I used to. My summer only tires are the best tires I've ever driven in the rain.
If you enjoy your compromise tire that’s great, they're not for me until I buy a minivan.

And yes I can definitely tell the difference between tire types.

To put this into terms that non drivers may understand-
What you're saying about tires is like saying "Nobody needs a race ski ,all skis will get you down the hill so there's no need for anything except a basic ski" Same for ski boots- All boots hold your foot, so who needs a siff race boot?? ...etc etc.

 

[Domeskier]

I'm willing so send a few extra bucks to have the best tire I can get for my car. I probably drive a bit more aggressive than the normal driver. Plus I can go to Autocrosses and not have to change tires to full race rubber like I used to. My summer only tires are the best tires I've ever driven in the rain.
If you enjoy your compromise tire that’s great, they're not for me until I buy a minivan.

And yes I can definitely tell the difference between tire types.

They are great for hitting tunaspeed on the interstate. If there is on thing I think we need more of, it is overconfident aggressive drivers on our highways.

 

[bobbutts]

One major reason around here to have awd and/or snows is the last mile, or for me more accurately last few hundred yards. I live on a hill and watch many cars unable to get up during the worst storms. It stinks to be unable to reach your own house with any regularity. When I lived on Ski Run BLVD in South Lake Tahoe and had FWD/Old All Seasons I'd have to park and walk the last stretch several times per season... Terrible.. Once I was able to afford it, I got AWD and never looked back.

For snow tires or not debate, having better braking performance/traction for roughly $500-$1000 is a pretty hard to argue against. It's safer and feels better. One of the best deals available in the auto market IMO.

 

[The Sneak]

mlctvt are you still instructing or a/xing? What are you driving?

 

[BenedictGomez]

My tires were worn out on my jeep this fall and I decided to go with a good set of all terrain tires instead of the snow tires since I did not want to deal with changing them every fall and spring.

Did the same thing this year.

Just put on some aggressive ATT last month, and I imagine they'll be fantastic with my 4WD. Frankly I've never had a problem with All-Season tires on a 4WD, so I can only imagine ATT will be that much better this winter.

I have been running all seasons on my awd cars for over 20 years without any problems. The all seasons are better than snows for 95% of my driving in the winter and during the summer they work fine for my driving style.

I pretty much agree with this, and I used to live in n.VT. Never had a problem with good all-season tires on a 4WD SUV, and trust me, they saw PLENTY of the Vermont mountains in winter!

 

[Big Game]

AWD + snows = ability to make a parking spot on a pile of snow.

The larger point, driving into known snowy conditions, with a whole bunch of investments on the line, miles from your home, in frigid temps, I know what I'm going to do. Also, blowing past freds turned around in Putney also makes me feel good inside. Maybe that's because I'm a dick.

 

[mlctvt]

The Sneak
I'm not active in autocross much now. I used to run with Renegade Miata club(MA), SCCA, Cart (CT), and Fairfield County sports car club. It was getting to the point wheere I was spending almost every Sunday from April to Sept at an event. I stopped about 5 years ago so I could get back into road cycling. Sundays are out long distance days. I still go to events occasionally.
My wife also used to autocross, she was very competitive too.

I've still got my '99 miata but we sold the '91 Toyota MR2 that my wife and I used to autocross. We also Have a modified WRX (wifes daily driver) and modified Legacy GT(my daily driver). All three cars wear summer tires in summer, the two Subarus run snow tires and the Miata is garaged in winter.

We also have a Honda Element - got snows for that one too.They make a terrible handling vehicle even worse

 

[xwhaler]

We have 2 vehicles for ski trips. When with the family we take our Kia Sorento AWD with new all season Firestone LE2 tires. Haven't used them in the snow yet but reviews were very good on TireRack for an all season.
When I'm solo I take my 4 x 4 Toyota Tacoma with Firestone ATs and can get through just about anything.

Sent from my VS980 4G using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[x10003q]

I used to be a performance driving instructor so I like the feel of the road; I'm willing so send a few extra bucks to have the best tire I can get for my car. I probably drive a bit more aggressive than the normal driver. Plus I can go to Autocrosses and not have to change tires to full race rubber like I used to. My summer only tires are the best tires I've ever driven in the rain.
If you enjoy your compromise tire that’s great, they're not for me until I buy a minivan.

And yes I can definitely tell the difference between tire types.

I should have included the autocrossers. I don't doubt you can tell.

I do maintain that the vast majority of us really cannot tell the difference between summer and all season tires. There are very few places on public roads out there to legally explore the limits. Think of all the commuters jammed on the roads at rush hour. Where are you supposedly using the extra performance? The occasional empty highway ramp?

To put this into terms that non drivers may understand-
What you're saying about tires is like saying "Nobody needs a race ski ,all skis will get you down the hill so there's no need for anything except a basic ski" Same for ski boots- All boots hold your foot, so who needs a siff race boot?? ...etc etc.

Your ski analogy makes no sense.

I would be interested if you can show the reasons why summer tires are better than the a/s tires when we are both going 65 mph on the highway or 45mph on the local 2 lane or 25 mph on my street.

 

[Cannonball]

Drove over the Kanc 3 times this weekend. 5am Saturday: sheer, glaze ice, could barely even walk from my front door to my driveway. 9pm Saturday: blowing snow, 10' visibility, only car on road, no plows, no sand, no salt, absolute white-knuckle. 5am Sunday: chunky mix of snow and ice. Would never have survived any of those trips with 2WD, and honestly was stupid to make any of those trips at all. But Subaru handled it well. For me AWD is a must have.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Philpug]

No. Snow tires are more important than AWD or 4WD. Of course, both snows and AWD trump all... but it is completely unnecessary. Maybe one or two days an entire winter I think "that would have been a little easier with AWD in addition to snows" but I have never found myself overly inconvenienced due to the lack of AWD so I say it is not a high priority on what is important in a vehicle.

So true.