Will Auto Makers Ever Deliver the Ideal Ski Vehicle?

[AdironRider]

Good for you, but you cant honestly think that driving a car 341k is the norm. Id say your in 1% of the driving population. I dont need to be more careful. I think youre being delusional if the average person drives 50k a year like you do. Seriously, you average 48k a year in change? Come on man, the average milage driven by most americans is like 15k a year. With the amount you drive, your spending 5k just in gas per year, before you even touch a car payment or anything in maintenance. The average person in America could not physically afford to drive as much as you do.

And if you do drive that much, I bet your insurance premiums are higher as well, better take that into account.

 

[AdironRider]

Well, I am going to give up debating my perspective on this issue. This thread clearly proves that the auto industry already has made the ideal ski vehicle for better than 90% of the skiing population that doesn't value an extra $1000 per year in their pocket due to better mileage. But I still don't understand how you guys don't think an AWD cargo hauler that gets 35+ combined MPG is not more ideal than what you guys already have. You guys have proven that the auto industry clearly would be wasting their time and money improving fuel efficiency in the AWD market. I'm stunned.

Maybe because your ideals are again, different.

To me, a ski vehicle needs to be capable before being frugal. Clearly, the majority of America agrees.

Honestly bud, there are very few vehicles out there that get 35 mpg combined period. Excuse me for careing more about my time in the vehicle, but theres no way Im driving a Fiesta or Jetta diesel off road. This is America, not Europe.

I honestly could care less what my mpg's are, I need to be able to get to places more than I need to save an extra couple bucks a month. Those are my ideals.

 

[deadheadskier]

Your favorite mountain and the car you use to get there SUX!!!11!!1

 

[deadheadskier]

And if you do drive that much, I bet your insurance premiums are higher as well, better take that into account.

I don't think miles driven matters much when it comes to car insurance. It's where you live that matters as most accidents occur close to home.

Our insurance bill for the year is $1200. That's for full coverage (the highest pay out and lowest deductable money can buy) on an 04 Mazda3 and an 07 Sonata.


Thank you New Hampshire!!!! Having perfect driving records also helps

 

[AdironRider]

I don't think miles driven matters much when it comes to car insurance. It's where you live that matters as most accidents occur close to home.

Our insurance bill for the year is $1200. That's for full coverage (the highest pay out and lowest deductable money can buy) on an 04 Mazda3 and an 07 Sonata.


Thank you New Hampshire!!!! Having perfect driving records also helps

Huh, maybe its by provider? I know when I moved a couple miles closer to work just recently, my premium went down 20 bucks a month. I run through Geico, and that was their explanation. I currently pay 87 a month for full coverage and a 1000 deductible. Im also younger.

I think having two cars that both went for around 20k new helped you out, considering they are now 4 and 8 years old respectively. The replacement value on those cars must be pretty low at this point.

I think car insurance is a total scam, especially given that in most states its mandated by law. Cant wait to ditch the truck payment and go to liability. The Geico quote for me (26, Wyoming resident, 10k miles driven per year, 1 ticket) was 17 bucks a month. I pretty much crapped my pants, and immediately upped the amount I pay on the truck every month so I can get that rate.

 

[ctenidae]

your favorite mountain and the car you use to get there sux!!!11!!1

qft.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think having two cars that both went for around 20k new helped you out, considering they are now 4 and 8 years old respectively. The replacement value on those cars must be pretty low at this point.

.

Perhaps a bit. Who knows. I bought the Sonata new in October of 06 for 24K. We bought the Mazda used in September 09 for 12K. We've been paying the same rate since the Mazda purchase. I almost always shop for a new deal every 6 months, but $100 a month for 2 drivers and 2 cars at max coverage is pretty tough to beat.

Travelers FTW!

 

[AdironRider]

Perhaps a bit. Who knows. I bought the Sonata new in October of 06 for 24K. We bought the Mazda used in September 09 for 12K. We've been paying the same rate since the Mazda purchase. I almost always shop for a new deal every 6 months, but $100 a month for 2 drivers and 2 cars at max coverage is pretty tough to beat.

Travelers FTW!

I will agree, thats a solid rate for full coverage and a low deductible. Ill have to check them out when my policy runs its course.

 

[Cannonball]

Well, I am going to give up debating my perspective on this issue. This thread clearly proves that the auto industry already has made the ideal ski vehicle for better than 90% of the skiing population that doesn't value an extra $1000 per year in their pocket due to better mileage. But I still don't understand how you guys don't think an AWD cargo hauler that gets 35+ combined MPG is not more ideal than what you guys already have. You guys have proven that the auto industry clearly would be wasting their time and money improving fuel efficiency in the AWD market. I'm stunned.

No, I'm with you 100%. It pisses me off that my wife's CRV only gets about 26MPG. This car feels like about the lowest-end we can go (size, cost, etc) and still have a reasonable ski vehicle that carries the gear, the dog, and passengers. Besides that minimal amount of space, the only other option we won't compromise on is AWD.

If any competitor offered the same space with AWD but 10MPG more....we would literally by it tomorrow.

 

[mondeo]

Well, I am going to give up debating my perspective on this issue. This thread clearly proves that the auto industry already has made the ideal ski vehicle for better than 90% of the skiing population that doesn't value an extra $1000 per year in their pocket due to better mileage. But I still don't understand how you guys don't think an AWD cargo hauler that gets 35+ combined MPG is not more ideal than what you guys already have. You guys have proven that the auto industry clearly would be wasting their time and money improving fuel efficiency in the AWD market. I'm stunned.

Given the alternative of a boring car? Nope. Not worth it.

What you're asking for can't exist with the current technology. That's all there is to it. A 30MPG 7 person vehicle can't happen, a 40 mpg fun car can't happen, etc. By the time you put in the design features required to hit those efficiency targets, you've lost the fuel cost reduction in up front costs. The new Impreza hatch is as close as you're going to get today with AWD, probably the Fusion or Legacy for a slightly larger vehicle, Escape, etc.

The car companies are doing what is reasonable to increase efficiency, but you're overconstraining the problem.

You're also missing the solution of getting an additional car for a limited use situation. If I had room in my driveway to park another car, I'd seriously consider getting a Fiesta for the ~8K miles/year I do for long, boring drives where the STI just sorta goes to waste.

 

[JimG.]

Good for you, but you cant honestly think that driving a car 341k is the norm. Id say your in 1% of the driving population. I dont need to be more careful. I think youre being delusional if the average person drives 50k a year like you do. Seriously, you average 48k a year in change? Come on man, the average milage driven by most americans is like 15k a year. With the amount you drive, your spending 5k just in gas per year, before you even touch a car payment or anything in maintenance. The average person in America could not physically afford to drive as much as you do.

And if you do drive that much, I bet your insurance premiums are higher as well, better take that into account.

I'm not bragging, and I certainly don't think that 350K is the norm. So there goes your assertion that I'm delusional. I actually average over 50K a year and my gas bills would be unaffordable if my present company didn't give me a healthy gas allowance. I keep any loans I have to take out real small so that the car is paid off quickly. My new 2011 Legacy was paid for cash on the spot. And no, I certainly don't think that's the norm either.

And unless you tell them, my insurance company has no idea how much I drive. My premiums are quite affordable, that is until my 17 year old gets added to the policy. I'm currently paying $1500 a year for both the 11 Legacy and the 05 Outback in NY, through Travelers like DHS. I think Geico is ripping you off.

Look, I don't want to turn this harmless thread into a flame war. I just didn't like the way you simply dismissed that others may drive as much as DHS just because of the industry he works in, that's all. I guess you didn't take into account that anyone who works in route sales drives an inordinate amount.

 

[riverc0il]

What you're asking for can't exist with the current technology.

Why can't a diesel get mated with an AWD? VW/Audi's TDIs get 42 MPG highway and higher real world is often reported. Mate that with an AWD and you can get utility, AWD, and MPG. This also resolves the issue of high MPG vehicles also being fun to drive... it is possible.

Regarding the 200k not being realistic... you are going to drive the same cumulative lifetime mileage regardless of how many cars you drive.... so call it 2 Million liftetime miles if you would prefer.... the fuel savings continue to add up regardless of how many times you change cars as long as you get cars with good MPG. And as gas prices increase, it will get even more noticable.

 

[mondeo]

Why can't a diesel get mated with an AWD? VW/Audi's TDIs get 42 MPG highway and higher real world is often reported. Mate that with an AWD and you can get utility, AWD, and MPG. This also resolves the issue of high MPG vehicles also being fun to drive... it is possible.

Regarding the 200k not being realistic... you are going to drive the same cumulative lifetime mileage regardless of how many cars you drive.... so call it 2 Million liftetime miles if you would prefer.... the fuel savings continue to add up regardless of how many times you change cars as long as you get cars with good MPG. And as gas prices increase, it will get even more noticable.

Mating it to AWD would probably drop it to 38 instantly, add the fact that you're paying 15% more for diesel, and voila, worse than the Impreza. And the TDI does NOT qualify as a fun car. Jeeze, 0-60 in 8.6s? A Grand Caravan is faster. And more fun to throw around corners, in its own perverse way.

The cars under consideration when I bought mine were the STI, Evo, 350Z, and GTO. The Mustang GT would work its way into consideration today. Maybe the Focus ST, but I'm really hoping they bring a Focus RS or Fiesta RS. I'm not saying there aren't fun cars below this level, but try something with slightly better performance than what the horrid time period between the exit of the AWD Eclipse and Celica and the arrival of the WRX had to offer.

 

[deadheadskier]

Mike,

Your hatred for skiing a Fischer Watea 94 in the bumps totally makes sense to me now. :lol:

 

[mondeo]

Mike,

Your hatred for skiing a Fischer Watea 94 in the bumps totally makes sense to me now. :lol:

I like going fast and pushing things. Anyone who's skied with me I think can attest to that. I've always been a little confused that there isn't more overlap between skiers and car lovers, because I'm drawn to both for the thrill seeking aspects.

You don't need power to have fun, as the Miata has shown over the couple decades of its existence. My brother had a '89 MR2 that was an absolute blast. But I've never heard of the TDI/Golf described as a particularly flickable car; I'd never think to recommend it as a car for someone looking for something moderately fun but fuel efficient and relatively inexpensive. The stock answers there are the Fiesta and Mazda 3. Regardless, I don't see a 40mpg gas or equivelent diesel with AWD coming for another few years. Maybe 2014-2015MY. And I think it's foolish to expect auto companies to spend tens of millions in development cost to offer cars that will save a very small segment of the world population $100-200 dollars per year.

And the Wateas have grown on me in the bumps, largely because I've started skiing more direct. They don't work so well with the throw it sideways and skid method that I was using before last summer. I actually enjoyed skiing the few bump runs I did at Copper and A-Basin with them.

 

[Geoff]

I like going fast and pushing things. Anyone who's skied with me I think can attest to that. I've always been a little confused that there isn't more overlap between skiers and car lovers, because I'm drawn to both for the thrill seeking aspects.

You don't need power to have fun, as the Miata has shown over the couple decades of its existence. My brother had a '89 MR2 that was an absolute blast. But I've never heard of the TDI/Golf described as a particularly flickable car; I'd never think to recommend it as a car for someone looking for something moderately fun but fuel efficient and relatively inexpensive. The stock answers there are the Fiesta and Mazda 3. Regardless, I don't see a 40mpg gas or equivelent diesel with AWD coming for another few years. Maybe 2014-2015MY. And I think it's foolish to expect auto companies to spend tens of millions in development cost to offer cars that will save a very small segment of the world population $100-200 dollars per year.

And the Wateas have grown on me in the bumps, largely because I've started skiing more direct. They don't work so well with the throw it sideways and skid method that I was using before last summer. I actually enjoyed skiing the few bump runs I did at Copper and A-Basin with them.

I don't understand why you don't just ride a motorcycle.

 

[mondeo]

I don't understand why you don't just ride a motorcycle.

Probably will in a year or two, but I figure a DH bike comes first. But motorcycles aren't much fun in the rain and snow.

 

[deadheadskier]

I like going fast and pushing things. Anyone who's skied with me I think can attest to that. I've always been a little confused that there isn't more overlap between skiers and car lovers, because I'm drawn to both for the thrill seeking aspects.
.

I'm just a gaper. Hence why I drive a Sonata.


In all seriousness, I do agree with you. If I didn't put 40K miles per year on a car and drew a larger paycheck, I'd probably drive an S4 wagon.

 

[Glenn]

Why can't a diesel get mated with an AWD? VW/Audi's TDIs get 42 MPG highway and higher real world is often reported. Mate that with an AWD and you can get utility, AWD, and MPG. This also resolves the issue of high MPG vehicles also being fun to drive... it is possible.

I think mondeo did a good job summing up why VW doesn't make an AWD diesel. Maybe as diesels catch on in popularity, you'll start to see more variants.

 

[Geoff]

I think mondeo did a good job summing up why VW doesn't make an AWD diesel. Maybe as diesels catch on in popularity, you'll start to see more variants.

No. VW makes an AWD diesel. They don't import it. In Europe, diesel is cheaper than gasoline. Here, diesel passenger car owners pay the truck hate tax. If they paid the same gasoline taxes as passenger cars, the fuel would be cheaper.

VW is also very careful about not intruding into their more upscale Audi market. Those cars will be getting diesel first. Right now, it's just the A3 (the Golf platform) and the Q7. The whole lineup should have a diesel option in a couple of year.