Jay Peak bombshell

[deadheadskier]

That's my concern as well. As @Smellytele said, Ragged has had trails cut on Pinnacle for 10 years now without any further advancement. That's a pretty major red flag- not just financially but leadership as well. To sink the costs of planning, approval, and trail cutting, without evidently never having enough capital to finish the job with a lift, snowmaking, and grading.... well that's just a bad look and shows management may be one to bite off more than they can chew.

Yeah, Jay needs a ton of high-capital projects. A detachable replacement for bonnie, a ton of snowmaking improvements, and a replacement for the Flyer all need to be undertaken in the next 10 years. While still running the money sink of a tram. Hopefully they can manage, I wish them the best.

Pretty certain Ragged was counting on EB5 money to do the Pinnacle expansion. Once that program fell apart, the investment was less appealing and it was abandoned.

Personally, I'm glad they didn't finish it up and it's growing back in. From what I could tell, the trail designs were quite lame. Very wide and mostly straight.

 

[machski]

I believe the west bow expansion was put on hold by Vermont until the streams were remediated.

Actually, I believe the stream issue was why the Powerline 6 never went in and the Bonne had to be shortened and the terminal moved up for the Stateside Lodge/Hotel. The West Side expansion I thought was to coincide with the real estate offering over there that also got left on paper.

 

[mbedle]

Actually, I believe the stream issue was why the Powerline 6 never went in and the Bonne had to be shortened and the terminal moved up for the Stateside Lodge/Hotel. The West Side expansion I thought was to coincide with the real estate offering over there that also got left on paper.

You may be right, I just remember the state putting a stop to further develop due to sedimentation issues in the streams on the property.

 

[Smellytele]

Merge all 3 Jay peak threads into this original one.

 

[cdskier]

Merge all 3 Jay peak threads into this original one.

Yup...not sure why 2 new Jay Peak threads had to be created when we already had an existing one going...

 

[deadheadskier]

New forum software doesn't have a merge feature

 

[KustyTheKlown]

delete the other two?

megathreads for each resort 4lyfe

 

[cdskier]

New forum software doesn't have a merge feature

Maybe you don't have the rights for some reason? XenForo supports that functionality (at least in the current version...).

 

[thebigo]

Other than pinnacle not much discussion on who actually is Pacific and how they operate. Following is a rambling summary, sources as necessary.

Current leadership:

VERN GRECO
President/CEO

Relevant Background

• COO, Powdr: Park City Mountain Resort, Mt. Bachelor, Alpine Meadows, Boreal, Las Vegas Ski & Snowboard Resort
• President & GM: Park City Mountain Resort, Steamboat Ski & Resort Corp., and Durango Mountain Resort
• Chairman: Colorado Ski Country and Park City Chamber & Visitors Bureau
• Board of Directors: National Ski Areas Association, Ski Utah, & PSIA

Resume:

Greco has been president and general manager of Park City Mountain Resort since 1998 and guided the company through the Olympics as well as a successful re-positioning to capture the youth market with nationally-acclaimed terrain parks.

Prior to joining Powdr Corporation and Park City Mountain Resort Greco was president and CEO of Durango Mountain Resort, formerly Purgatory Resort, and before that, president and CEO of Steamboat.

Pacific acquired Ragged in 2007. Pacific acquired Wisp in 2012. Greco joined Pacific in 2013. Development on pinnacle ceased around the time or shortly after Greco joined Pacific. Spear HSDQ was installed in 2014. Ragged claims a 5X snowmaking capacity increase in 2015. Mission affordable launched at Ragged in 2016.

2015 lease on Wintergreen acquired. Later in 2015 lease to operate mount Washington BC acquired. 2016 Washington purchased. 2018 lease to operate powderhorn acquired. 2021 Wisp and Wintergreen purchased. 2023 lift planned at powderhorn. Every property was distressed at the time of purchase, several in bankruptcy.

Very rambling interview with Greco: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffr...catalyst-for-positive-change/?sh=4b6f6d0a5350

Excerpts:

As an example, almost every ski area has a lift maintenance department and that same ski area will have a vehicle maintenance department. Those guys are pretty seasonal with maintenance guys, you know, seasonal, vehicle maintenance, because we've got a lot of rolling stock during the winter, not nearly as much rolling stock in the summertime. ... I’d really like to create a smaller but more high powered group of almost hybrid jobs, super jobs where that group of maintenance people can work all the way across the platform for us. And when I say that, it's very easy, would not be wrong for somebody to say, "Oh look, you're just looking to cram down on your head count again. All you're trying to do is reduce some labor costs." But to tell you the real true objective isn't solely to reduce that labor cost, but to create a better place to work, a place that attracts a higher quality team member, somebody who makes a greater contribution to that team. As a result of making that greater contribution to the team, they can be better compensated. Ultimately, it leads to better retention, higher job satisfaction, and a culture that I think can be infused with positive energy.

A few personal observations from a year at ragged following our liberation from vail:

• They blow a massive amount of snow but do not resurface. They blow deep and then use the groomers to repair freeze/thaw. They use rented air that is gone after early February.
• They start grooming at sunrise. They would much prefer to put several machines on a trail than risk a freeze after grooming, it shows in the surface. Without question ragged recovers from a freeze/thaw better than anyone in new england.
• They seem to retain employees and use foreign labor well.

Edit - one more point, anyone thinking they are going to get an unlimited ragged/jay pass for <$400 is out of their mind. Take a look at Wintergreen, they do not sell an unlimited pass. Mission affordable is blacked out 16 days, passholders are offered a $59 day pass. I have no idea how this works for race families.

Second edit - I don't remember the timing, was greco still running PCMR when the lease payment was missed?

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe you don't have the rights for some reason? XenForo supports that functionality (at least in the current version...).

Could be. Maybe Nick will pop in in six months to merge the threads. Haha

 

[abc]

I hate long running threads. Can't possibly find any useful information in the jumbo even if my life depends on it. If I want to post and forget what I've ever written, I'd post it on Facebook.

Let those other threads live.

Besides, how else can BM1 get a thread of his own to continue his monologue?

 

[Smellytele]

I hate long running threads. Can't possibly find any useful information in the jumbo even if my life depends on it. If I want to post and forget what I've ever written, I'd post it on Facebook.

Let those other threads live.

Besides, how else can BM1 get a thread of his own to continue his monologue?

Wow just saw his post in that other thread. Didn’t read it but can only imagine.
I agree on long threads but in this case all Jay stuff is all about the same thing.

 

[JPTracker]

Court approved the sale. On to the Auction phase:

https://jaypeakreceivership.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/DE_727_-_Order_Approving_Sale_of_Jay_Peak_Resort_and_Setting_Deadlines-Hearing_08-04-22.pdf

 

[JoeB-Z]

Court approved the sale. On to the Auction phase:

https://jaypeakreceivership.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/DE_727_-_Order_Approving_Sale_of_Jay_Peak_Resort_and_Setting_Deadlines-Hearing_08-04-22.pdf

Any other bidder's now have 30 days to make a higher offer. If that happens then an auction two day later. Labor Day figures in there but by early September, this could be a done deal.

 

[IceEidolon]

The big Wintergreen snowmaking expansion - including the big water tank, lots of TA Low E guns, and nearly full automation - predates Pacific. Wisp snowmaking used to be a showcase of automation (SMI built an incredible control room, pumphouse, etc.) but the on-hill infrastructure hasn't been properly maintained. They have electrical gremlins and just generally don't get the resources to fully build out the snowmaking the way it ought to be, though some new TA guns - not who I'd buy from if I have trouble getting money for spare parts, but whatever - have showed up.
Ragged has kind of a similar story - their automation was designed poorly and isn't well used in the limited areas it's present in.

I don't trust Pacific to make real snowmaking improvements in the near term. Lifts seem okay, snowmaking not so much.

 

[thebigo]

not sure if this was posted but we should have more info next week:

7. A final hearing to consider approval of the sale of the Jay Peak Resort is scheduled for August 26, 2022 at 11:00 a.m.

 

[Abubob]

That's my concern as well. As @Smellytele said, Ragged has had trails cut on Pinnacle for 10 years now without any further advancement. That's a pretty major red flag- not just financially but leadership as well. To sink the costs of planning, approval, and trail cutting, without evidently never having enough capital to finish the job with a lift, snowmaking, and grading.... well that's just a bad look and shows management may be one to bite off more than they can chew.

Yeah, Jay needs a ton of high-capital projects. A detachable replacement for bonnie, a ton of snowmaking improvements, and a replacement for the Flyer all need to be undertaken in the next 10 years. While still running the money sink of a tram. Hopefully they can manage, I wish them the best.

I agree with dhs. I think the Pinnacle Peak development was a bridge too far. Since then, however, Ragged has done a tremendous job of upgrading the mountain. They got the dead Spear Triple running for several years before replacing with the HSQ. They've continually upgrade the snowmaking and grooming. None of this was done all at once, mind you, but one step at a time. So bit by bit the area has grown back strong. And it seems all using local talent. My hope is they would do the same for Jay.

 

[xlr8r]

I agree with dhs. I think the Pinnacle Peak development was a bridge too far. Since then, however, Ragged has done a tremendous job of upgrading the mountain. They got the dead Spear Triple running for several years before replacing with the HSQ. They've continually upgrade the snowmaking and grooming. None of this was done all at once, mind you, but one step at a time. So bit by bit the area has grown back strong. And it seems all using local talent. My hope is they would do the same for Jay.

I think they profited off of the logging of the Pinnacle Peak Trails. That is why they did it so early without ever finishing it

 

[thetrailboss]

So....which of you are going to attend the hearing in a week and throw your bid in on Jay?

 

[Newpylong]

The big Wintergreen snowmaking expansion - including the big water tank, lots of TA Low E guns, and nearly full automation - predates Pacific. Wisp snowmaking used to be a showcase of automation (SMI built an incredible control room, pumphouse, etc.) but the on-hill infrastructure hasn't been properly maintained. They have electrical gremlins and just generally don't get the resources to fully build out the snowmaking the way it ought to be, though some new TA guns - not who I'd buy from if I have trouble getting money for spare parts, but whatever - have showed up.
Ragged has kind of a similar story - their automation was designed poorly and isn't well used in the limited areas it's present in.

I don't trust Pacific to make real snowmaking improvements in the near term. Lifts seem okay, snowmaking not so much.

Pacific operates far differently than Vail or Boyne in that their properties are so geographically disperse that there is no resource sharing. So if there is a vote of no confidence to make snowmaking improvements it has to do with local management, not Pacific in general. Their mountains eat what they catch.