Jay Peak bombshell

[thetrailboss]

WCAX

Right--I saw that. What I was saying is that I am surprised that the Judge granted his motion considering the size and seriousness of this case.

 

[Jcb890]

Quiros bought the ski area for $21.9 million. Hundreds of millions were spent improving the place. It is now allegedly worth somewhere between $80 million and $100 million.

I'm no business expert, but that seems like a pretty horrible outcome.

I tend to agree, though I also do not have an MBA. I don't think the fraud extends to anything outside of the EB-5 situation though, right?
However, if people were 'donating' $500k as part of this, depending on how many he got to buy in, that helps offset that $572M... however, you'd need 1,144 people to give up $500k each to become American citizens to pay for it all.

I honestly don't remember all the details of the EB-5 fraud, how much money was given or how many people received their American citizenship by paying for it.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I do have an MBA and I do agree; it's a joke. And that artificial manipulation of the market is dangerous & financially harmful to the players that DIDNT commit a massive fraud & get "free" government-transferred money. If you're Smuggler's Notch etc...., you should be absolutely irate.

 

[abc]

However, if people were 'donating' $500k as part of this, depending on how many he got to buy in, that helps offset that $572M... however, you'd need 1,144 people to give up $500k each to become American citizens to pay for it all.

This is overlooking the larger point and that is not to be complete xenophobes here. One cannot say that because these foreign investors were interested in a green card that somehow losing their money to a fraudster is completely OK. I've seen this argument implicitly made in this thread--that we should not care because these investors were only trying to buy citizenship and that is wrong so them getting bilked is completely fine. Well, that policy debate was had now over 20 years ago and Congress created the EB-5 program. These investments are subject to the same consumer protections available to us as investors. In fact, the biggest reason why so many do invest in America is because of these protections (or at least some form of protection).The argument that because these folks wanted a green card and the fact that they lost their money to a fraudster is OK is complete bullshit.

"Implicit"?

It's pretty "Explicit"!:roll:

 

[mbedle]

I do have an MBA and I do agree; it's a joke. And that artificial manipulation of the market is dangerous & financially harmful to the players that DIDNT commit a massive fraud & get "free" government-transferred money. If you're Smuggler's Notch etc...., you should be absolutely irate.

Why the hell would Smuggler's Notch be irate?

 

[mister moose]

Why the hell would Smuggler's Notch be irate?

The State picking winners in the EB-5 sweepstakes of cheap easy capital.

 

[Jcb890]

"Implicit"?

It's pretty "Explicit"!:roll:

I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.

 

[mbedle]

The State picking winners in the EB-5 sweepstakes of cheap easy capital.

But wait, Smuggler's Notch had just as much (as still does) opportunity to use the EB-5 program to upgrade their resort.

 

[mbedle]

I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.

It's one thing to not feel bad if the investment failed to produce any returns because it was simply a bad investment. It's a completely different thing to not feel bad when it was a failed investment because of fraud. As far as paying cash for a green card, misdirecting your feelings towards individuals that is using a government program to legally enter this county and become a citizen is bullshit.

 

[abc]

I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.

Fraud is fraud.

Just suppose you PAID $500 for a pair of ski and it never arrived because someone decided to use it for themselves. That's fraud. Do you think if a Mexican paid $500 and never got his skis, it's less of a fraud? I believe that's Trailboss's point.

If you "invest" $500K on a start up and the startup gone bust, that's "risk". But if you invest that same $500K in Enron and lose it all, that's fraud. That's NOT investment risk. Do you understand the difference?

If all of the Enron investors are Mexicans, does it make the fraud less bad so you "lose less sleep" than if the investors are American?

That, is Trailboss's point, I believe.

 

[abc]

misdirecting your feelings towards individuals that is using a government program to legally enter this county and become a citizen is bullshit.

Quite!

Perhaps they should have paid a fraction of that $500K to some smugglers and they can cross the Rio Grande in style. Why bother doing it legally?

 

[thetrailboss]

I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.

FWIW a lot of the investors have NOT gotten a green card yet because of Q's fraud and inability to create the requisite number of jobs.

 

[mbedle]

Quite!

Perhaps they should have paid a fraction of that $500K to some smugglers and they can cross the Rio Grande in style. Why bother doing it legally?

Thats good. LOL

 

[Jcb890]

I think I didn't articulate myself well previously...

I am in no way OK with the fraud and agree with them being persecuted, etc. I fundamentally don't agree with the EB-5 program itself I guess which just allows rich people to essentially buy a green card. Anyone who gave $500k is probably more mad about being defrauded out of a green card than they miss that $500k.

All that said... nobody deserves to lose any amount of money due to fraud.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The State picking winners in the EB-5 sweepstakes of cheap easy capital.

Precisely; the whole thing is artificial monkeying with markets, which never ends well. And in this case, handing Jay Peak $500 MILLION is a massive competitive advantage that not everyone can enjoy. The entire thing is BS, even without the massive fraud.

 

[VTKilarney]

I heard tonight from a fairly reliable source that Vail was never interested in Jay and that Alterra has pulled out.

 

[prsboogie]

PWDR?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Orca]

EB-5 was always a scam

 

[VTKilarney]

PWDR?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app

That’s all my source would tell me.

 

[mbedle]

They did just pick up a new place. Plus, they had 180 million sitting in the bank.