Jay Peak bombshell

[thetrailboss]

in reality how sustainable was jay that way? Did they need a water park and an Ice rink ? most definitely not. but the place needs some better more modern lodging. If it wasn't for the damn fraud, they may have already been gobbled up by one of these ski corporations.

Those amenities made Jay a weather-proof resort. And it also added significant offseason business. And are you saying that they still need better lodging? IMHO what they have now is pretty damn good.

 

[thetrailboss]

Answer this question. Would you rather Alterra or Vail own Sugarbush

Is there a third option?

 

[Hawk]

in reality how sustainable was jay that way? Did they need a water park and an Ice rink ? most definitely not. but the place needs some better more modern lodging. If it wasn't for the damn fraud, they may have already been gobbled up by one of these ski corporations.

Jimmy, I never had any issues with staying at Jay. There are like 10 different houses that were for rent that we cycled through. We also stayed at the condos right on the hill or one of the several little hotels. I reall don't need the top notch amenities. But that is me and that time is gone. So are the many stashes there used to be if you knew the place. Even the hike out to little jay is overrun with touists. YIKES.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Those amenities made Jay a weather-proof resort. And it also added significant offseason business. And are you saying that they still need better lodging? IMHO what they have now is pretty damn good.

no I was referring to pre build out.

 

[machski]

I agree with you but I think their plans must have changed since the finanials were tallied for last year. Hard to expand after loosing money I would think. Just a guess though. Who knows. Oddly enough, John Hammond said that the Alterra guys were in VT recently for the first time since they bought Sugarbush. You know Covid and all. They were impressed and talk about the potential. Interesting. I wonder if they did a covert mission North while they were here?

And Steve Kircher and co were just out East too recently. I know Sugarloaf hosted them for a while to discuss longer term plans up there, perhaps a side trip to NoVT too?? That would be a horrible addition to the New England Pass (JK!!)

 

[thetrailboss]

no I was referring to pre build out.

OK. Yes, totally. I thought you were talking about now and I was like "huh?"

 

[thetrailboss]

Jimmy, I never had any issues with staying at Jay. There are like 10 different houses that were for rent that we cycled through. We also stayed at the condos right on the hill or one of the several little hotels. I reall don't need the top notch amenities. But that is me and that time is gone. So are the many stashes there used to be if you knew the place. Even the hike out to little jay is overrun with touists. YIKES.

I was wondering if it had gotten overrun. The last time I skied Jay was 2003

 

[thetrailboss]

And Steve Kircher and co were just out East too recently. I know Sugarloaf hosted them for a while to discuss longer term plans up there, perhaps a side trip to NoVT too?? That would be a horrible addition to the New England Pass (JK!!)

Yeah, everyone focuses on Vail and Alterra but forgets about Boyne, POWDR (hell no!), and the Fairbanks (Jiminy, Cranmore). There also could be other groups out there (return of MSSI perhaps?)

 

[jimmywilson69]

LOL yeah new accommodations are very nice

Yeah Boyne would be an interesting play

 

[thetrailboss]

LOL yeah new accommodations are very nice

Yeah Boyne would be an interesting play

If you think about it, Boyne does not have a Vermont property. It also gets them into Canada. And is another way to draw folks to Big Sky. As an investment, the amenities are all done. One just needs to replace maybe two lifts and you are good to go.

 

[jimmywilson69]

It really does make sense. I still wonder what the asking price is. Is Jay Peak Resort a $50-$100 million property?

 

[thetrailboss]

It really does make sense. I still wonder what the asking price is. Is Jay Peak Resort a $50-$100 million property?

I believe the receiver wanted north of $130 mill if I recall correctly because he has a lot of cheated investors to pay.

As to valuation from a business standpoint, I think it is hard to justify that price. At least currently.

 

[Cobbold]

Any thoughts on the Berkshire East group buying jay, I hear they may have deep pockets.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i hope whoever does it completes the west bowl expansion but i wont hold my breath

i don't think jay is particularly overrun, and i tend to hit it on some bigger holiday type weekends when my other passes are blacked out. was fine for me this past mlk weekend, which was also a pow day

 

[thetrailboss]

Any thoughts on the Berkshire East group buying jay, I hear they may have deep pockets.

I also thought of them but don’t have any deep knowledge as to that group

 

[Smellytele]

Even the hike out to little jay is overrun with tourists. YIKES.

Hate to say but if you only went a few times a year you were a tourist too.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Answer this question. Would you rather Alterra or Vail own Sugarbush

That's what I was getting at, but I agree with him that Jay Peak was better back before parking garages, a hockey rink, water park, hotels, and whatever else was artificially dropped there via completely phony financials.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I was wondering if it had gotten overrun. The last time I skied Jay was 2003

It's a quantifiable quagmire of Quebecois. At least during some times. For instance, the bookended weekends of Canuck school vacation is absolutely no-go territory.

 

[fbrissette]

That's what I was getting at, but I agree with him that Jay Peak was better back before parking garages, a hockey rink, water park, hotels, and whatever else was artificially dropped there via completely phony financials.

The old Jay Peak model was unfortunately unsustainable, with crumbling lodging infrastructures. The pre-covid numbers under the receivership have shown that the new Jay peak is now a very profitable business, thanks to new year-round infrastructures (financed on the back of sorry investors). From a pure 'skier-days per acre' criteria, the old Jay Peak was clearly much better. But compared to the current competition, Jay Peak still has some of the shortest lift lines in the east.

 

[machski]

i hope whoever does it completes the west bowl expansion but i wont hold my breath

i don't think jay is particularly overrun, and i tend to hit it on some bigger holiday type weekends when my other passes are blacked out. was fine for me this past mlk weekend, which was also a pow day

Last year you cannot count as the Northern contingent was locked out.