Jay Peak bombshell

[2Planker]

I personally know 5 or 6 people that will never walk again from breaking their "neck". In New Hampshire it is against the law to "flip". I see it all the time Meow.

Have you ever seen a crash you don't try to help?

The kids a still lit up and immortal.

All the more snow for the Honorable Humpty Dumpty and I.

I think of my buddy whose 7yo snowboarder son tried to pull off a flip for the first time, and will now spend the rest of his days as a quadriplegic....
Very sad....

 

[kbroderick]

Maybe I am misreading things, but assuiming that the comments are serious, I can completely see Jay's POV. There was no ski patrol on-site. Hell, there may not have been any first aid folks at all at the resort. The only thing I could see is there being lifeguards at the Waterpark (if it was open). So there was a serious injury that occurred on their property and it required an urgent emergency response. Sounds like the person may have built a jump, but regardless, it is pretty effed-up to have a critically injured person onsite and out of normal business hours and then have to scramble to find people to assist. That's not reasonable for Jay IMHO. I read their comments as pure frustration and, consistent with Steve Wright, are made in a frank and honest way. Do they care about the person as a human being? Obviously they do as any of us would. But it is not fair to Jay to have somone come onsite when there are no services, get seriously effed up due to their own actions, and possibly be in the position of, "gee, where was the ski patrol?"

I think it could've perhaps been better phrased (don't need to pick on the kid while he's, as they put it, got a whole season to think about his choices), but the challenge in dealing with that scenario is very real. I do think it's fair to call out people doing backflips or other high-consequence stuff, even if it's squarely within their capabilities in general. Part of being a responsible backcountry skier is understanding the different consequences and rescue resources when you're not at an operational ski area and adjusting your behavior accordingly. Young guys are particularly bad at risk evaluation and management, and pushing the ones who are out there to think about the risks they are taking is a worthwhile endeavor.

I don't know how Jay does things, but I would expect that they'd have some patrol presence this close to opening, for setup and preparation purposes, or at the very least, former patrollers in other ops roles around. From an organizational perspective, that's almost worse than not having anyone on site--in the latter case, you probably call 911 to get SAR on the way and offer to help with transport via snow machine if you can. With patrol on site but not patrolling, they need to pull together a response with limited resources and stuff not staged as it would normally be. They might be legally able to say "we're closed, we'll call 911 for you" but I don't know many patrollers who would be willing to do that (and given Vermont's Good Samaritan law, they might have been obligated to help). It's really a crappy situation all around that again, pushes the notion that if we want to keep being able to ski outside of the operating season, we need to do our best to avoid impacting mountain operations.

 

[2Planker]

I think it could've perhaps been better phrased (don't need to pick on the kid while he's, as they put it, got a whole season to think about his choices), but the challenge in dealing with that scenario is very real. I do think it's fair to call out people doing backflips or other high-consequence stuff, even if it's squarely within their capabilities in general. Part of being a responsible backcountry skier is understanding the different consequences and rescue resources when you're not at an operational ski area and adjusting your behavior accordingly. Young guys are particularly bad at risk evaluation and management, and pushing the ones who are out there to think about the risks they are taking is a worthwhile endeavor.

I don't know how Jay does things, but I would expect that they'd have some patrol presence this close to opening, for setup and preparation purposes. From an organizational perspective, that's almost worse than not having anyone on site--in the latter case, you probably call 911 to get SAR on the way and offer to help with transport via snow machine if you can. With patrol on site but not patrolling, they need to pull together a response with limited resources and stuff not staged as it would normally be. They might be legally able to say "we're closed, we'll call 911 for you" but I don't know many patrollers who would be willing to do that (and given Vermont's Good Samaritan law, they might have been obligated to help). It's really a crappy situation all around that again, pushes the notion that if we want to keep being able to ski outside of the operating season, we need to do our best to avoid impacting mountain operations.

NO F'ing way is there any patrol there until they are officially OPEN.
Those skinners are 100% on their own if they have any "incidents".
911 is totally useless as local rescue isn't getting up the mountain.

Our neighbor spent a night outside at the Cat when his sunset skinning led to a broken ankle. Brrrrrr....

 

[thetrailboss]

totally reasonable of jay peak to be upset with the kid. i don't know why they wouldn't stress the impact it has on rescue services (as well as the increased danger of there not being ski services for people) rather than shit on the kid for trying a backflip. because instead of making a statement about safety that could apply to everyone skiing on the mountain (doing a backflip is only a little, if at all, more dangerous than skiing on the ridge), they specifically singled out this kid in a way that, at a surface level, just mocks him and doesn't actually say anything constructive. "he'll have the whole season to think it through" is not frank or honest, it's completely shitty. and plus, it's not like if ski patrol had been there he'd be any better off. they're framing it as if he got hurt because it's early season, or that the time of season affects backflip success rates, when it has nothing to do with that!!

Well, they listed as an example of how out of control things have gotten. As well as the statements about people breaking into lift shacks and other items. And as I said, Steve is always direct and frank. They are trying to deter folks from doing similar risky behavior.

 

[thetrailboss]

totally reasonable of jay peak to be upset with the kid. i don't know why they wouldn't stress the impact it has on rescue services (as well as the increased danger of there not being ski services for people) rather than shit on the kid for trying a backflip. because instead of making a statement about safety that could apply to everyone skiing on the mountain (doing a backflip is only a little, if at all, more dangerous than skiing on the ridge), they specifically singled out this kid in a way that, at a surface level, just mocks him and doesn't actually say anything constructive. "he'll have the whole season to think it through" is not frank or honest, it's completely shitty. and plus, it's not like if ski patrol had been there he'd be any better off. they're framing it as if he got hurt because it's early season, or that the time of season affects backflip success rates, when it has nothing to do with that!!

And I think that the real question for Mr. Katz is what would Vail do in the same circumstance?

 

[kbroderick]

NO F'ing way is there any patrol there until they are officially OPEN.
Those skinners are 100% on their own if they have any "incidents".
911 is totally useless as local rescue isn't getting up the mountain.

One guy spent a night outside at the Cat when his sunset skinning led to a broken ankle.....

911 would dispatch whatever SAR team is appropriate (right?), but from what I've been told, if that results in people on scene within a couple of hours, you got lucky. I don't know if there's a local group near Jay or if they'd be dispatching from further south (in which case I'm guessing it could be a lot longer).

I've helped on one Tuckerman incident that was pretty much best case for a significant injury in the bc--the injured snowboarder was with a party of 10-12 that included about six ski patrollers, we were able to package him in a cached litter, and someone else was able to get info to the snow ranger, so there was motorized transit waiting at HoJos. It was still a long time before the patient was in an ambulance. I've also spent a lot of time working with high-school-age skiers, and trying to get the guys to make good choices kept us busy. Those two factors together are certainly a bit scary.

 

[ThatGuy]

And I think that the real question for Mr. Katz is what would Vail do in the same circumstance?

“The Stormtroopers are always ready to deploy and stop unlawful use of closed ski areas….and deadly force IS authorized bud”

 

[Rob Katz]

And I think that the real question for Mr. Katz is what would Vail do in the same circumstance?

i'd sue him and give myself a bonus

 

[thetrailboss]

i'd sue him and give myself a bonus

That’s more like it.