Jay Peak bombshell

[2Planker]

I personally know 5 or 6 people that will never walk again from breaking their "neck". In New Hampshire it is against the law to "flip". I see it all the time Meow.

Have you ever seen a crash you don't try to help?

The kids a still lit up and immortal.

All the more snow for the Honorable Humpty Dumpty and I.

I think of my buddy whose 7yo snowboarder son tried to pull off a flip for the first time, and will now spend the rest of his days as a quadriplegic....
Very sad....

 

[kbroderick]

Maybe I am misreading things, but assuiming that the comments are serious, I can completely see Jay's POV. There was no ski patrol on-site. Hell, there may not have been any first aid folks at all at the resort. The only thing I could see is there being lifeguards at the Waterpark (if it was open). So there was a serious injury that occurred on their property and it required an urgent emergency response. Sounds like the person may have built a jump, but regardless, it is pretty effed-up to have a critically injured person onsite and out of normal business hours and then have to scramble to find people to assist. That's not reasonable for Jay IMHO. I read their comments as pure frustration and, consistent with Steve Wright, are made in a frank and honest way. Do they care about the person as a human being? Obviously they do as any of us would. But it is not fair to Jay to have somone come onsite when there are no services, get seriously effed up due to their own actions, and possibly be in the position of, "gee, where was the ski patrol?"

I think it could've perhaps been better phrased (don't need to pick on the kid while he's, as they put it, got a whole season to think about his choices), but the challenge in dealing with that scenario is very real. I do think it's fair to call out people doing backflips or other high-consequence stuff, even if it's squarely within their capabilities in general. Part of being a responsible backcountry skier is understanding the different consequences and rescue resources when you're not at an operational ski area and adjusting your behavior accordingly. Young guys are particularly bad at risk evaluation and management, and pushing the ones who are out there to think about the risks they are taking is a worthwhile endeavor.

I don't know how Jay does things, but I would expect that they'd have some patrol presence this close to opening, for setup and preparation purposes, or at the very least, former patrollers in other ops roles around. From an organizational perspective, that's almost worse than not having anyone on site--in the latter case, you probably call 911 to get SAR on the way and offer to help with transport via snow machine if you can. With patrol on site but not patrolling, they need to pull together a response with limited resources and stuff not staged as it would normally be. They might be legally able to say "we're closed, we'll call 911 for you" but I don't know many patrollers who would be willing to do that (and given Vermont's Good Samaritan law, they might have been obligated to help). It's really a crappy situation all around that again, pushes the notion that if we want to keep being able to ski outside of the operating season, we need to do our best to avoid impacting mountain operations.

 

[2Planker]

I think it could've perhaps been better phrased (don't need to pick on the kid while he's, as they put it, got a whole season to think about his choices), but the challenge in dealing with that scenario is very real. I do think it's fair to call out people doing backflips or other high-consequence stuff, even if it's squarely within their capabilities in general. Part of being a responsible backcountry skier is understanding the different consequences and rescue resources when you're not at an operational ski area and adjusting your behavior accordingly. Young guys are particularly bad at risk evaluation and management, and pushing the ones who are out there to think about the risks they are taking is a worthwhile endeavor.

I don't know how Jay does things, but I would expect that they'd have some patrol presence this close to opening, for setup and preparation purposes. From an organizational perspective, that's almost worse than not having anyone on site--in the latter case, you probably call 911 to get SAR on the way and offer to help with transport via snow machine if you can. With patrol on site but not patrolling, they need to pull together a response with limited resources and stuff not staged as it would normally be. They might be legally able to say "we're closed, we'll call 911 for you" but I don't know many patrollers who would be willing to do that (and given Vermont's Good Samaritan law, they might have been obligated to help). It's really a crappy situation all around that again, pushes the notion that if we want to keep being able to ski outside of the operating season, we need to do our best to avoid impacting mountain operations.

NO F'ing way is there any patrol there until they are officially OPEN.
Those skinners are 100% on their own if they have any "incidents".
911 is totally useless as local rescue isn't getting up the mountain.

Our neighbor spent a night outside at the Cat when his sunset skinning led to a broken ankle. Brrrrrr....

 

[thetrailboss]

totally reasonable of jay peak to be upset with the kid. i don't know why they wouldn't stress the impact it has on rescue services (as well as the increased danger of there not being ski services for people) rather than shit on the kid for trying a backflip. because instead of making a statement about safety that could apply to everyone skiing on the mountain (doing a backflip is only a little, if at all, more dangerous than skiing on the ridge), they specifically singled out this kid in a way that, at a surface level, just mocks him and doesn't actually say anything constructive. "he'll have the whole season to think it through" is not frank or honest, it's completely shitty. and plus, it's not like if ski patrol had been there he'd be any better off. they're framing it as if he got hurt because it's early season, or that the time of season affects backflip success rates, when it has nothing to do with that!!

Well, they listed as an example of how out of control things have gotten. As well as the statements about people breaking into lift shacks and other items. And as I said, Steve is always direct and frank. They are trying to deter folks from doing similar risky behavior.

 

[thetrailboss]

totally reasonable of jay peak to be upset with the kid. i don't know why they wouldn't stress the impact it has on rescue services (as well as the increased danger of there not being ski services for people) rather than shit on the kid for trying a backflip. because instead of making a statement about safety that could apply to everyone skiing on the mountain (doing a backflip is only a little, if at all, more dangerous than skiing on the ridge), they specifically singled out this kid in a way that, at a surface level, just mocks him and doesn't actually say anything constructive. "he'll have the whole season to think it through" is not frank or honest, it's completely shitty. and plus, it's not like if ski patrol had been there he'd be any better off. they're framing it as if he got hurt because it's early season, or that the time of season affects backflip success rates, when it has nothing to do with that!!

And I think that the real question for Mr. Katz is what would Vail do in the same circumstance?

 

[kbroderick]

NO F'ing way is there any patrol there until they are officially OPEN.
Those skinners are 100% on their own if they have any "incidents".
911 is totally useless as local rescue isn't getting up the mountain.

One guy spent a night outside at the Cat when his sunset skinning led to a broken ankle.....

911 would dispatch whatever SAR team is appropriate (right?), but from what I've been told, if that results in people on scene within a couple of hours, you got lucky. I don't know if there's a local group near Jay or if they'd be dispatching from further south (in which case I'm guessing it could be a lot longer).

I've helped on one Tuckerman incident that was pretty much best case for a significant injury in the bc--the injured snowboarder was with a party of 10-12 that included about six ski patrollers, we were able to package him in a cached litter, and someone else was able to get info to the snow ranger, so there was motorized transit waiting at HoJos. It was still a long time before the patient was in an ambulance. I've also spent a lot of time working with high-school-age skiers, and trying to get the guys to make good choices kept us busy. Those two factors together are certainly a bit scary.

 

[ThatGuy]

And I think that the real question for Mr. Katz is what would Vail do in the same circumstance?

“The Stormtroopers are always ready to deploy and stop unlawful use of closed ski areas….and deadly force IS authorized bud”

 

[Rob Katz]

And I think that the real question for Mr. Katz is what would Vail do in the same circumstance?

i'd sue him and give myself a bonus

 

[thetrailboss]

i'd sue him and give myself a bonus

That’s more like it.

 

[AdironRider]

Jay opens Sat with 30 trails. Basically all of the Jet and Taxi terrain, including glades.

 

[Cat in January]

What a bunch of wankers

 

[thetrailboss]

Jay's post on FB from a couple of days ago:

We know everyone is fired up, especially after another 12-16" last night, but everyone needs to engage with more thoughtfulness. We are winching on the Jet, working the Montrealer, and visibility is extremely limited. There is absolutely no Uphill Travel, and it should go without saying – downhill, traffic allowed on Stateside.
The only approved Uphill Travell Route right now is Ullr's Dream. If you head up, stay well within bounds and stay entirely on Tramside. Do not choose a descent that returns you to Stateside. With snowmaking all over the Stateside base area, winch cables, grooming equipment and no Ski Patrol on the mountain, this is not the time to explore or improvise.
It only takes a few people ignoring the rules to shut things down for everyone. Stick to Ullr's, stay smart, and help keep things moving in the right direction.

 

[drjeff]

True statement, especially early and late season, high end reported snowfall totals at summit elevations are often magnitude less 2k or so vertical feet lower... That's just the reality that any social media or marketing spin can't get around

 

[doublediamond]

A broken femur is a life threatening emergency. If ta shard of that bone tore his femoral artery, he'd be dead vs. sitting out a season. This isn't a "golly shucks he got hurt doing a flip". Instead it's a "he almost died doing a dangerous stunt with no help around."

Jay's statement was very mellow.

And btw, not all ski areas even have femur traction devices. When you break your femur your quads shrink up and once the bone is offset, the leg shortens. It must be stretched back to be set properly.

 

[2Planker]

A

And btw, not all ski areas even have femur traction devices. When you break your femur your quads shrink up and once the bone is offset, the leg shortens. It must be stretched back to be set properly.

Having patrolled for 35 years....
Just about every place carries a Sager Traction Splint or Ol' School Thomas 1/2 Ring set up.

The Sager traction splint is a medical device used to stabilize and treat femur fractures, particularly in emergency settings. It provides controlled traction to reduce pain, prevent further injury, and align the broken bone during transport.

• Application: The splint is applied to the inner side of the leg, using a single frame for both legs or one leg at a time. It is designed for quick application, even in confined spaces like ambulances.
  
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• Benefits: It minimizes muscle spasms, reduces pain, and prevents excessive blood loss from femoral fractures. The Sager splint is preferred by emergency responders due to its simplicity and adaptability.
  
  2
• Usage: It is used for mid-shaft femur fractures and can be applied to both unilateral and bilateral fractures. The traction force is measured and adjusted to ensure safety and effectiveness.
  
  2
  
  For detailed instructions on application and safety precautions, refer to the Sager Traction Splint manual.
  
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  4 Sources

https://forums.alpinezone.com/javascript:void(0)

 

[Vter]

Having broken my femur through back in ‘70, with spiral fracture above and below the knee I can attest that what ever device patrol used to fasten to my ankle & my hip with wheels to expand the thing was the worst pain I’ve ever endured, all On Slope…I was fairly young at the time and I still have nightmares about it, I did loose a little bit of length on my right leg, suffered many knee surgeries during & after a pretty successful sports career, However,
The ER doctor told my Dad, “Patrol may have saved your Son’s life….”
Thank you ! But man oh man, the pain haunts

 

[2Planker]

Having broken my femur through back in ‘70, with spiral fracture above and below the knee I can attest that what ever device patrol used to fasten to my ankle & my hip with wheels to expand the thing was the worst pain I’ve ever endured, all On Slope…I was fairly young at the time and I still have nightmares about it, I did loose a little bit of length on my right leg, suffered many knee surgeries during & after a pretty successful sports career, However,
The ER doctor told my Dad, “Patrol may have saved your Son’s life….”
Thank you ! But man oh man, the pain haunts

That's a Thomas Splint. Been used for over a 150 years.
and YES, that is serious pain as it is being reduced.... But a Femur Fx IS a life threatening injury.
Done it 20-30 times. Never gets easy

 

[raisingarizona]

Having broken my femur through back in ‘70, with spiral fracture above and below the knee I can attest that what ever device patrol used to fasten to my ankle & my hip with wheels to expand the thing was the worst pain I’ve ever endured, all On Slope…I was fairly young at the time and I still have nightmares about it, I did loose a little bit of length on my right leg, suffered many knee surgeries during & after a pretty successful sports career, However,
The ER doctor told my Dad, “Patrol may have saved your Son’s life….”
Thank you ! But man oh man, the pain haunts

Dude.....

You should have seen my face while reading that. That's a big nope for me. I'm glad I've made it this far without an injury like that.

 

[ceo]

That's a Thomas Splint. Been used for over a 150 years.
and YES, that is serious pain as it is being reduced.... But a Femur Fx IS a life threatening injury.
Done it 20-30 times. Never gets easy

I know what you meant, but my first thought was "dude, might want to dial it back a bit".

 

[Vter]

Thank you from all us fragile creatures !