Jay Peak Conceptual Development Plan (2011-2016)

[kingdom-tele]

Call it a draw. I'm whining about your whining about cost and I've whined in the past about your constant whining about development or change of any kind in your neck of the woods.

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app

which are disappearing slowly but surely

 

[tnt]

not whining DHS, I can easily go somewhere else or do other activities, and do. Your right, J has every right to charge whatever they like. In fact, I happily purchased a mid week pass last spring for my solo ski time.

It was only a remark on this year's price. A statement reflecting an industry that, much like other recreational services, is gladly leaving behind a large portion of the public who might be interested in the atmosphere of resort skiing, especially one 15 miles from your front door. The complexity they add will come at a price, the places remaining that keep skiing non complex and accessible are dying, as the list your making indicates. Skiing for a day with your wife and daughter for the price of a cord of wood is what it is. It just doesn't seem necessary, my opinion ofcourse.

You applying your perception to my comment is more akin to whining.

Yeah, it's a trend everywhere. recreation spots have to compete not only within their industries, but really across industries lately as disposable incomes decrease.

But I will say this as some one who has skied Jay only once though I've skied the east my whole life - it's a great place. The hotels are priced for families, and are pretty well done. The skiing, when we were there, was fantastic. The mountain is awesome....and yeah, I can see the water park and fluffy spa stuff kind of rubbing locals the wrong way, and we didn't need it - we were there to ski - but on the other hand, they are probably keeping the place alive.

Anyway, all that has been said before I'm sure, but as some one new to Jay, I'd suggest it sure could be worse. Seems like a really great place to us.

 

[kingdom-tele]

It is a great place tnt, I agree. I am lucky enough to be on the mountain many times/week. They certainly do have great ski and stay packages, as fb points out season pass deals, dynamic off snow activities. Even with that it has little to do with the local family who has a kido excited to go ski, excited about the atmosphere of lift served skiing, but an economic tag that is putting it just a little further out of reach. Being raised Jay is becoming more difficult for the people living in its shadow, for the people who ski when life allows it vs reorienting life to ski. We are fortunate there are other options that are half the price. Lets face it, a five year old sees skiing a little differently, it would be nice to do it at J, but the same joy for the half the price doesn't even take an economic dolt like me to figure out which lodge we'll be suiting up in

 

[tnt]

Well, I hear you, and you're not alone. We stopped going to our favorite mountain retreat in the summer because after they built a spa, the rates have been jacked sky high and the clientele has changed drastically. But I was told by a local that without the spa, they were done, so though he shared our concerns, he praises the spa...

And similarly, one of regular hills in the Poconos really goes over the top with the "no outside food in the lodge", really signs every f-ing place....to the extent that I write to complain every time we visit there....I know they need the money from food, but jeez, we can't afford their lift tickets (I think only about $15 less than Jay!!!) AND Their high food prices....packing in every day means a few more days of skiing for us....

But such is the way of the world...

So, for an affordable day with the kids up that way, where do you go?

 

[thetrailboss]

$130 for two parents and a kid to ski one day is a lot for those on a fixed income or who are the typical NEK folks. Over the years Jay and Burke have responded by adjusting season pass rates lower as a way to entice locals to go that route. But that may not work for some. I agree that this is a problem with the industry as a whole. And, as a guy who spent most of his early skiing years at the Lyndon Outing Club, I get it. I'm fortunate now that I can afford a pass and I can reallocate my money and lifestyle for that. But yeah if I was buying tickets by the day at the window I'd be poor pretty quickly.

 

[deadheadskier]

. Even with that it has little to do with the local family who has a kido excited to go ski, excited about the atmosphere of lift served skiing, but an economic tag that is putting it just a little further out of reach. Being raised Jay is becoming more difficult for the people living in its shadow, for the people who ski when life allows it vs reorienting life to ski.

Nobody is forcing people to live in the shadow of Jay and not earn enough money to make Jay affordable. That's an individual choice. It's not Jay's fault.

I lived in Vermont for many years. I went to High School and College there and spent about five working years of my adult life there. I loved it, but also endured economic hardships that often prevented me from participating in activities I enjoyed. I didn't stay and bitch about it; I left. Almost all of my good friends from High School and College made the same decision.

I often miss living there; especially when Mount Mansfield is getting hammered with snow and I'm three and half hours away.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

 

[thetrailboss]

I also will admit/confess that over the years of reading KT's comments I've become more skeptical (not quite jaded) about the JPR/Burke plans and how things are going.

 

[thetrailboss]

One other note of interest: if the Vermonter Rate and Day Rates have increased then I would argue that the ski product has not. Granted I have not skied at Jay in a long time, but from my observations from afar they have essentially the same lifts and terrain as they did when I was there. I know that a lot of folks have grumbled about the improvements of lodging and other base amenities while the Jet and Bonnie are now almost 30 years old. It sounds like they may be working on expanding snowmaking but if it's on the same timetable as the Six-Pack and West Bowl then I will be retired and in a nursing home before it becomes reality.

 

[deadheadskier]

Jay dropped all of their prices last year significantly. Day tickets went from $75 down to $64.

 

[4aprice]

Correct. See also page one of this thread, in which you said "So it is "Back to the Future" in the sense that the Jet and Bonnie will go on what were the original lift lines back in the day--the UN I believe used to be the old T-Bar and the Powerline was the old double."

I'm certainly no expert on JPR but I did ski there back in the late 60's and early 70's several times. The old center pole double did run up Powerline that I know but I also rode the old Jet T-bar and skied UN and don't remember the T running up it, rather up a separate liftline next to it pretty much where the current chair runs now. Some one can correct me if I'm wrong but the trail the chair climbs now was widened when the chair was installed.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[kingdom-tele]

Nobody is forcing people to live in the shadow of Jay and not earn enough money to make Jay affordable. That's an individual choice. It's not Jay's fault.

I lived in Vermont for many years. I went to High School and College there and spent about five working years of my adult life there. I loved it, but also endured economic hardships that often prevented me from participating in activities I enjoyed. I didn't stay and bitch about it; I left. Almost all of my good friends from High School and College made the same decision.

I often miss living there; especially when Mount Mansfield is getting hammered with snow and I'm three and half hours away.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

It is an individual choice. I will repeat as it seems you can not read anything I write without a sour tone. I don't begrudge J, I look forward to the sky rocketing rates when they have to start figuring out a way to afford their complexity, the "buisness" choices they make that continue to make lift served skiing a have vs have not endeavor. I have moved on, will ski my mid week mornings as long as I can afford it and continue to hike it weekly, because it is beautiful and satisfying to stand on the top of that mountain. My choice to live here has nothing to do with lift served skiing, even though it is an enjoyable activity in the winter.

tnt: we now go to Owl's Head, half day AM/PM rates, free for the kido, $75 for the family, nice low level terrain, poutine, cold beer, picnic benches. Burke on Sunday afternoons, was $25/adult, don't know about this year.

In retrospect, I wish I could take back my jaded tone from earlier posts. I realized along the way that being content with something lesser isn't a vision everyone shares and should have kept it to myself. I still love the mountain, appreciate the rink, love my friends I have made there, the rest will be what it is.

 

[tnt]

Jay dropped all of their prices last year significantly. Day tickets went from $75 down to $64.

Camelback, about 800 vrt. feet, packed every weekend, virtually every trail groomed, no tree skiing, pocono crowds....adult weekend pass $61.....

It's crazy.

But hey, $64 even for a mountain like Jay is a lot of money.

It's a tough reality and a hard thing balance - the matrix is a complicated one - it's not just "how much money can we charge for lift tickets so as to run at max. profit" because lift tickets are just one part of the profit equation now. Do you want day trippers, locals, families, lodgers....who is more likely to buy your food? Your rentals? Your lessons? Who is a low cost customer that you can just put the lift money in the till, and who is likely to require services and amenities?

i don't - kind of an unanswerable questions.

But again, from my perspective, Jay seems to be tackling the touchy subject of evolving from a ski mountain into a resort pretty well.

I really liked the place and wish we were going back.

 

[tnt]

It is an individual choice. I will repeat as it seems you can not read anything I write without a sour tone. I don't begrudge J, I look forward to the sky rocketing rates when they have to start figuring out a way to afford their complexity, the "buisness" choices they make that continue to make lift served skiing a have vs have not endeavor. I have moved on, will ski my mid week mornings as long as I can afford it and continue to hike it weekly, because it is beautiful and satisfying to stand on the top of that mountain. My choice to live here has nothing to do with lift served skiing, even though it is an enjoyable activity in the winter.

tnt: we now go to Owl's Head, half day AM/PM rates, free for the kido, $75 for the family, nice low level terrain, poutine, cold beer, picnic benches. Burke on Sunday afternoons, was $25/adult, don't know about this year.

In retrospect, I wish I could take back my jaded tone from earlier posts. I realized along the way that being content with something lesser isn't a vision everyone shares and should have kept it to myself. I still love the mountain, appreciate the rink, love my friends I have made there, the rest will be what it is.

Hey, I'm jealous that day rates at Jay could even be a problem - meaning, I wish I had jay in my back yard, and had to juggle between a bunch of good mountains.

You know, even living up there, maybe take a look at there stateside hotel promo - don't know where you live exactly, but if you had a hankering for a night at the hotel, it seems basically like staying over night for free - or skiing for free,, how ever you want to look at it. Might make a nice mid week getaway.... I think it was, family of four for $249/night, ski and stay.....

 

[dlague]

It is an individual choice. I will repeat as it seems you can not read anything I write without a sour tone. I don't begrudge J, I look forward to the sky rocketing rates when they have to start figuring out a way to afford their complexity, the "buisness" choices they make that continue to make lift served skiing a have vs have not endeavor. I have moved on, will ski my mid week mornings as long as I can afford it and continue to hike it weekly, because it is beautiful and satisfying to stand on the top of that mountain. My choice to live here has nothing to do with lift served skiing, even though it is an enjoyable activity in the winter.

tnt: we now go to Owl's Head, half day AM/PM rates, free for the kido, $75 for the family, nice low level terrain, poutine, cold beer, picnic benches. Burke on Sunday afternoons, was $25/adult, don't know about this year.

In retrospect, I wish I could take back my jaded tone from earlier posts. I realized along the way that being content with something lesser isn't a vision everyone shares and should have kept it to myself. I still love the mountain, appreciate the rink, love my friends I have made there, the rest will be what it is.

Nobody is forcing people to live in the shadow of Jay and not earn enough money to make Jay affordable. That's an individual choice. It's not Jay's fault.

I lived in Vermont for many years. I went to High School and College there and spent about five working years of my adult life there. I loved it, but also endured economic hardships that often prevented me from participating in activities I enjoyed. I didn't stay and bitch about it; I left. Almost all of my good friends from High School and College made the same decision.

I often miss living there; especially when Mount Mansfield is getting hammered with snow and I'm three and half hours away.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I wanted to point out a thing or two - I too miss northern Vermont. I grew up there and learned to ski at Jay and Burke! However, I moved away to NH because of opportunity and luckily I am having my cake and eating it too since we have access to 40+ ski areas in a 2 hour radius with Jay being one of the 3-4 visits resorts! I technically am right in the middle of NE skiing! I get what you are both saying and everyone has their own opinion. My family was not for the change at Jay - and really loved the classic Jay with it's simplicity. But, later we realized that they are a business that needs to figure out a long term strategy. I have since used some of the other amenities and enjoyed them. I have bought on to the idea! There are some things that I do not agree with ($16 for 5 and under - should be free) at Jay but I am a spectator. Those who seem to shit on Jay are doing it because they have some kind of beef! Hell, Killington has haters, Smuggs has haters, etc. Pick a resort and post a positive remark on this forum and someone will find something negative to write!

On another note - I think there are ways to make skiing affordable at Jay - we generally use The Ride and Ski Card and ski there in 2 for 1 days (most Sunday-Friday dates and the tour stop). As you can see from my signature, we are well traveled in NE and Jay is always a favorite for my whole family. The food there is affordable, plenty of entertainment for the kids and adults apres ski and if not staying at my parents home up there - it is single day round trip ski and drive!

However, if I lived up there and were to ski anywhere - I would go to Owls Head too! With the $20 Tuesday and Wednesday rate and the Carte Blanche with 10%, 20%, 25%, 30% off each consequetive visit then free on the fifth - it is a no brainer!

I hope to return to the NEK someday for the long haul but for now it is still my backyard but a big backyard it is - NEK with out the K! Those who choose to stay up there - well hats off to you - it is beautiful country!

 

[St. Bear]

I wanted to point out a thing or two - I too miss northern Vermont. I grew up there and learned to ski at Jay and Burke! However, I moved away to NH because of opportunity and luckily I am having my cake and eating it too since we have access to 40+ ski areas in a 2 hour radius with Jay being one of the 3-4 visits resorts! I technically am right in the middle of NE skiing!

I've said before that I think Manchester, NH is a highly underrated place to live for skiing for this very reason. The only significant places in New England that aren't daytrippable are Saddleback and Sugarloaf. Literally everything else is in play.

 

[dlague]

I've said before that I think Manchester, NH is a highly underrated place to live for skiing for this very reason. The only significant places in New England that aren't daytrippable are Saddleback and Sugarloaf. Literally everything else is in play.

Yup and Concord is even better! Near the 93 and 89 split! Ragged, Gunstock, Sunapee, Pats, Crotched and Waterville are all less than 45 minutes and most less than 30! Other than that there are plenty of day tripable places to ski! Oddly enough, we tend to got to Vermont the most!

Raisem' Jay!

 

[mriceyman]

Yup and Concord is even better! Near the 93 and 89 split! Ragged, Gunstock, Sunapee, Pats, Crotched and Waterville are all less than 45 minutes and most less than 30! Other than that there are plenty of day tripable places to ski! Oddly enough, we tend to got to Vermont the most!

Raisem' Jay!

this makes me so jealous. im an 2.5 hours to hunter!! 4 hours and change to gore.

 

[ScottySkis]

this makes me so jealous. im an 2.5 hours to hunter!! 4 hours and change to gore.

I hear that I used be far from the Catskills. This year my trip will take just over an hour one huge things with others that make living here very nice.

 

[Smellytele]

Yup and Concord is even better! Near the 93 and 89 split! Ragged, Gunstock, Sunapee, Pats, Crotched and Waterville are all less than 45 minutes and most less than 30! Other than that there are plenty of day tripable places to ski! Oddly enough, we tend to got to Vermont the most!

Raisem' Jay!

I too live in this area and agree on the accessibility of the ski areas of New England. The ocean and Boston are day trips a s well. Loves this area of the Country and New England.

 

[deadheadskier]

If it weren't for our love of the NH and Southern Maine seacoast and having family in the area, I could totally see my wife and I enjoy living in the Concord area. I really dig the Concord area west to Henniker, north to Plymouth and east to Northwood. Lots of great communities and the area is prime for year round living in terms of economic/employment opportunities and great access to recreation.