Jay Peak Conceptual Development Plan (2011-2016)

[from_the_NEK]

Looks about right

That would mean the Bonaventure has been shortened by roughly 265 feet.
I'm not sure the zoo in between the hotel and the lift will be as bad as you think. There is still about 175’ of space between the new hotel and the new Bonny base (more than the width of a football field). Additionally, the lift coral for the old Bonny base used to go almost up to tower 1 which caused some bottlenecking since you had to hike up and around tower 1 to get to the Jet from the old lodge. I've highlighted the area that was typically roped off in orange. Additionally, you had to go around the Ski Patrol building, which was actually located where the corner of the new hotel is now. With the removal of tower 1, the approach to Stateside, if you are coming down any trails skiers left of the Bonny, is almost more direct than it was last year (see the light blue line). Sure there will be people walking up hill to get to the relocated Bonny and there will be people skiing the opposite way going to the lodge. But I don’t think it will be as bad as you think.
By the way, to get to the new Bonny base from Angel’s Wiggle/Paradise Meadows, you can take that little side track on the skiers left (green line) that will dump you out on Lower Power Line above the quad. I sketched in a theoretical lift coral area for the relocated Bonny (pink polygon).

 

[JPTracker]

That would mean the Bonaventure has been shortened by roughly 265 feet.
I'm not sure the zoo in between the hotel and the lift will be as bad as you think. There is still about 175’ of space between the new hotel and the new Bonny base (more than the width of a football field). Additionally, the lift coral for the old Bonny base used to go almost up to tower 1 which caused some bottlenecking since you had to hike up and around tower 1 to get to the Jet from the old lodge. I've highlighted the area that was typically roped off in orange. Additionally, you had to go around the Ski Patrol building, which was actually located where the corner of the new hotel is now. With the removal of tower 1, the approach to Stateside, if you are coming down any trails skiers left of the Bonny, is almost more direct than it was last year (see the light blue line). Sure there will be people walking up hill to get to the relocated Bonny and there will be people skiing the opposite way going to the lodge. But I don’t think it will be as bad as you think.
By the way, to get to the new Bonny base from Angel’s Wiggle/Paradise Meadows, you can take that little side track on the skiers left (green line) that will dump you out on Lower Power Line above the quad. I sketched in a theoretical lift coral area for the relocated Bonny (pink polygon).

The trail the green line is on has been regraded and widened slightly. There is also a bridge over a creek in there that has been rebuilt and widened. They are prepared for everyone using that trail to get back to the Bonnie now.

 

[JPTracker]

Interesting. So what is the consenus? Bonnie is in place for a while?

My guess would be at least five years. Now that they have spent the money to relocate it I don't see them replacing it until the West Bowl is fully developed, which my guess is at least five years away.

 

[LONGBOARDR]

According to Bill Stenger (6/13)*, the red chair upgrade is on hold until west bowl permits are in hand.
Water issues in the west bowl concern various regulatory agencies which are slowing their development plans.

The skier flow around the stateside area will likely be OK, JP's mountain design guy is really good.

Personally, I have concerns on POW days where winds have the tram-freezer on hold and the occupants of new hotel and surrounding cottages (which no one mentions) pile onto the triple and track out runs pronto.

Looking forward to a snowy long winter.

* JP owners meeting

 

[thetrailboss]

According to Bill Stenger (6/13)*, the red chair upgrade is on hold until west bowl permits are in hand.
Water issues in the west bowl concern various regulatory agencies which are slowing their development plans.

And the West Bowl has been in the works now since at least 2002. This really is the exact opposite of what they had been saying for the past two seasons with all the PR over the new six-pack. Interesting how they walked that one back.

Anyone suspect there are other reasons as to why the (new) delay when they had been pushing the new six pack really hard the last two seasons? Or is this a misperception?

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

That would mean the Bonaventure has been shortened by roughly 265 feet.
I'm not sure the zoo in between the hotel and the lift will be as bad as you think. There is still about 175’ of space between the new hotel and the new Bonny base (more than the width of a football field). Additionally, the lift coral for the old Bonny base used to go almost up to tower 1 which caused some bottlenecking since you had to hike up and around tower 1 to get to the Jet from the old lodge. I've highlighted the area that was typically roped off in orange. Additionally, you had to go around the Ski Patrol building, which was actually located where the corner of the new hotel is now. With the removal of tower 1, the approach to Stateside, if you are coming down any trails skiers left of the Bonny, is almost more direct than it was last year (see the light blue line). Sure there will be people walking up hill to get to the relocated Bonny and there will be people skiing the opposite way going to the lodge. But I don’t think it will be as bad as you think.
By the way, to get to the new Bonny base from Angel’s Wiggle/Paradise Meadows, you can take that little side track on the skiers left (green line) that will dump you out on Lower Power Line above the quad. I sketched in a theoretical lift coral area for the relocated Bonny (pink polygon).

Nice drawing as usual, NEK, but I think you are optimistic about skier flow. In the previous orientation, the skier bombing over from Tramside via Queen's Highway had a lot of room and could easily avoid the traffic from old Stateside Lodge to the Bonnie. A wide open view allowed one to dodge incoming traffic from uphill and keep speed up by the patrol building. Not anymore. You will be funneled into a death zone between Taxi Chair, the new lodge and the Bonnie. Patrol will be out with radar guns keeping it all under control. A few pics to illustrate:

The view from the Taxi Chair loading area toward the new lodge and the runout to the Jet. Use your imagination and picture a busy day...

Looking up from below the Bonnie. Note the exposed concrete of the loading area, which will have to brought up to grade. One would think that there is a lot of fill yet to come:

Bonnie base looking at the lodge. Kind of slopey for a lift corral, don't you think?

 

[tnt]

I would think once they add enough fill to get level with the loading slab there, they will have enough earth to make a farily flat space behind and corral there...maybe?

The hotel is going to add some traffic there, no doubt.

And I think more of an issue is the hike up to the Taxi - that loads pretty high up if I remember correctly. So, yes, families and young skiers starting out at the hotel and heading for the low slopes are going to be hiking up through the incoming traffic.

Which is the condition now, but traffic will be increased with the hotel....

Well, we'll see....

It's a shame they couldn't replace the bonnie with a HS as planned. That would really get hotel guests up and on the mountain faster, as well as everyone else....

 

[JPTracker]

Note the exposed concrete of the loading area, which will have to brought up to grade. One would think that there is a lot of fill yet to come:

That exposed concrete is just the cover for an electrical vault for the power for the lift. I don't think the grade will change much from what it is now.

I believe the crushed stone bed under the lift is the final grade on which they will put the wooden walkway used for loading.

Bonnie base looking at the lodge. Kind of slopey for a lift corral, don't you think?

Almost looks like the coral wil be behind the lift where the ground is a bit more level. But then again with snow making everything changes.

 

[fbrissette]

Interesting. So what is the consenus? Bonnie is in place for a while?

My guess is that the Bonnie is staying there until they open up the west bowl. I never understood why they planned to replace it before that anyway. A lot of money for not much benefit.

 

[kingdom-tele]

My guess is that the Bonnie is staying there until they open up the west bowl. I never understood why they planned to replace it before that anyway. A lot of money for not much benefit.

isn't that their new marketing campaign

wonder what the price difference was in relocating up 2 poles, painting and polishing the bonnie vs just putting in a new lift?

 

[fbrissette]

isn't that their new marketing campaign

To be fair, they do provide a lot of benefits, just not for the hard-core skier. As much as I enjoy the new dining opportunities, and the water park a couple of times per year, I would trade all of it for the west-bowl in a heart beat.

wonder what the price difference was in relocating up 2 poles, painting and polishing the bonnie vs just putting in a new lift?

I'm sure it is quite significant. On top of buying the new lift, there is significant work involved to level the terrain at the base of the face. Nevertheless, the trouble they went through and money spent on the Bonnie is a strong clue that this was done for quite a few years.

They put all of the electrical cables in along Powerline during summer 2012. This was an important investment indicating they were really planning to change the lift at that time. Still not clear as to what happened afterward to make them change their minds.

 

[dlague]

Nice drawing as usual, NEK, but I think you are optimistic about skier flow. In the previous orientation, the skier bombing over from Tramside via Queen's Highway had a lot of room and could easily avoid the traffic from old Stateside Lodge to the Bonnie. A wide open view allowed one to dodge incoming traffic from uphill and keep speed up by the patrol building. Not anymore. You will be funneled into a death zone between Taxi Chair, the new lodge and the Bonnie. Patrol will be out with radar guns keeping it all under control. A few pics to illustrate:

The view from the Taxi Chair loading area toward the new lodge and the runout to the Jet. Use your imagination and picture a busy day...

Looking up from below the Bonnie. Note the exposed concrete of the loading area, which will have to brought up to grade. One would think that there is a lot of fill yet to come:

Bonnie base looking at the lodge. Kind of slopey for a lift corral, don't you think?

I do not see it as problematic!

• Anyone skiing to Taxi or Bonnie will stay above the Terminal.
• Traffic between the lodge and Bonnie will minimally impact passers by.
• From that location you have to skate over to the Jet as before so that does not change.
• There will be more space than there is between Metro/Flyer and Tram House Lodge

so .... I am not seeing it!

 

[thetrailboss]

They put all of the electrical cables in along Powerline during summer 2012. This was an important investment indicating they were really planning to change the lift at that time. Still not clear as to what happened afterward to make them change their minds.

That's what makes me go :blink:

 

[JPTracker]

I do not see it as problematic!

• Anyone skiing to Taxi or Bonnie will stay above the Terminal.
• Traffic between the lodge and Bonnie will minimally impact passers by.
• From that location you have to skate over to the Jet as before so that does not change.
• There will be more space than there is between Metro/Flyer and Tram House Lodge

so .... I am not seeing it!

I think it will be similar to when you come down Queens Highway, headed for the Flyer and have to pass below the Metro Quad through all the people coming up from the hill and just standing around the lift. Sometimes it's a problem, sometimes not.

 

[tnt]

My guess is that the Bonnie is staying there until they open up the west bowl. I never understood why they planned to replace it before that anyway. A lot of money for not much benefit.

I would think that a HS lift close to the hotel would really help congestion and enhance the experience staying stateside.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Sweet pictures, thanks for posting them. Seems like Jay Peak has been pretty hushed on the Bonny mods, probably so they don’t have to keep answering questions about the HS6 :razz:.
I agree that the layout isn’t perfect. There is only so much room to work with in that area without getting into the waterway set-backs. The two uphill traffic sources going to the lifts will be the Lodge doors/stairs from parking and the Hotel door. The Lodge door/stairs will likely be a bigger source of traffic (Purple lines) and the Hotel door (brown lines)fairly minor. As long as you can generally avoid the traffic of the purple lines, I think you will have a better route, which leads me to this question.

When coming down Chalet Meadows, is it possible to cut above the Taxi lift corral and then cut over to the Jet, taking advantage of the slope between the Taxi base and the Bonny base (revised light blue line)?
You would definitely have to slow a bit as you navigate around Taxi, but you should have a pretty good view of cross traffic as you head down past the Bonny (Note that I’ve only ever skied across from Tramside to the Jet via Chalet Meadows a couple times and that was on wind hold days). If slowing down to ski through the traffic is too much hassle, I guess you could always board the Taxi lift and then traverse over to Jet via the Kangaroo trail .

Whatever traffic issues there are going to be, I really think Stateside will have a really hard time reaching the level of the Tramside shit show when trying to navigate the crowds around the lifts. That area is a mess. Especially if you are trying to ski through to the tram.

As far as the lift corral, I’m not quite sure how they are going to work that for the Bonny. I’m guessing it will be built on that slope with the assistance of snowmaking. Maybe have three entries to the corral. One on the Lodge side (light green line), One Uphill side (dark green lines, one singles (yellow line). The RFID gate is the dark blue line.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Yikes, while working on the picture above in Google Earth, I went over to Europe to check out the Ischgl place. It makes any NE ski area look like a mole hill :-o. That place has roughly a 6 mile diameter which would be like filling up the area between Montgomery Center and Jay Village with several 5000 ft vert mtn ridges and putting lifts all over them. Or to put in in even more perspective, it would be like doubling the length of Breckenridge along the Ten Mile Range, then adding trails off the opposite side of the TMR toward Copper Mtn and then also taking over half of Copper Mtn.

 

[thetrailboss]

Here's an idea that would work given the fact that they are keeping the Bonnie for now and folks are lukewarm about having the HS-6 go higher (and be exposed to wind) and not to mention cost:

Jay should upgrade the Bonnie and do one of these:

The new quad features a conveyor loading system, which will improve the lift loading experience, reduce lift stoppage time, and allow the lift to run at speeds of up to 500 feet per minute, making it the fastest fixed-grip lift on the market. The new lift travels 3,746 feet, rises 1,457 vertical feet, features a total of 16 towers, and is powered by a 400 horsepower motor. An additional 400 horsepower Cummins Diesel engine serves as a backup.

Skyline was designed to be as wind-resistant as possible, with shorter towers, heavier chairs, and several hundred feet of wind-fencing.

The presence of this new, high-capacity quad is expected to rebalance the flow of uphill traffic on the mountain, thus reducing pressure on other lifts and decreasing lift lines across the mountain during peak times.

https://www.sugarloaf.com/corporate/media/PressReleases/Present/2011/Skyline_Opening.html

Problem solved. (Can I get my paycheck now, Steve and Bill Stenger ? )

 

[tnt]

Here's an idea that would work given the fact that they are keeping the Bonnie for now and folks are lukewarm about having the HS-6 go higher (and be exposed to wind) and not to mention cost:

Jay should upgrade the Bonnie and do one of these:

https://www.sugarloaf.com/corporate/media/PressReleases/Present/2011/Skyline_Opening.html

Problem solved. (Can I get my paycheck now, Steve and Bill Stenger ? )

That's cool.

So the conveyor gets the passenger up to speed to merger with the chair? Very neat. I could see boarders having a little trouble with that though.

So, in general, detachable lifts are more susceptible to wind?

 

[thetrailboss]

That's cool.

So the conveyor gets the passenger up to speed to merger with the chair? Very neat. I could see boarders having a little trouble with that though.

So, in general, detachable lifts are more susceptible to wind?

Yes, that's generally how it works. Alta has one for their triple and they added the conveyor belt to an existing lift. Most fixed grips can actually go faster than they do...it's just resorts run them slower for loading and unloading...and with this feature they can speed up an existing fixed grip lift. That said there might be some other modifications that might be needed.

And as to the wind question: all lifts are vulnerable especially with cross-winds. Just look at how often the GMF is closed at JPR. Bonnie is somewhat sheltered (below the ridge) and the top of it just barely sits in the crest. So add some windfencing at the top of the lift and that would help instead of installing a new lift with a terminal higher up and more exposed.