Killingtons impact on other resorts

[2knees]

How much a part does killingtons early closing have on the decisions of Mt. Snow particularly, and sunday river, sugaloaf and sugarbush to stay open late? I say Mt. Snow primarily because they are the ones who seem to be significantly adding to their season. Sugarbush closed on the same day last year as killington and i believe sugarloaf and sunday river have historically made it to late april if not may. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[wa-loaf]

I think Killington has a bigger impact on the other Vt areas. Sugarloaf has always stayed open into May if conditions permitted and Sunday River used to have May 1 as a free skiing day.

 

[danny p]

I think Mount Snow would be staying open as late as possible even with competition from Killington. I think they are looking for the title of first to open, last to close, jmo. I think some areas are probably relieved that Killington is closing early, its less pressure on them to compete. I do think Sugarbush is probably staying open later in part due to K's closing date.

 

[Greg]

If Mount Snow can pull it off and stay open beyond Okemo and Killington, I think they might do pretty well, or at least break even. I have no data to back that up, but it seems to me with all the whining about Killington closing earlier than they historically used to, there has to be a decent sized group that would take advantage of them being open later. Snow is easily accessible from the NYC metro and even Boston so there's opportunity there. They should sell 2008-09 passes on the way in/out.

 

[Stache]

Agree with danny p.
Hard to beat the reputation of Kmart BUT...
When the "King of Spring" abdicates the thrown I believe that is the open door to Mt. Snow entering the thrown room. Closer to the die hards and now without any other close competition.


PS I haven't traded or sold off my Mt. Snow vouchers.

 

[loafer89]

I honestly cannot remember Sugarloaf skiing into May in recent times. Last year they closed on April 29th, and on Easter Sunday in 2006.

Historically sugarloaf skied into May in the 1960's - 1990's and skied until June 1st in 1996?

 

[skiadikt]

i kinda think that k is doing other areas a favor by closing early. even if they stay open as late like mt snow or a week later like the bush, they all come out winners and k the loser.

back in the early 80's the bush & k went at it pretty hard to see who could stay open the latest. i remember very late may '81, the bush had closed the day before and as i was in kbl as i was booting up, the lifties & mtn ops guys were congratulating each other on k beating out the da bush. made a lasting impression on me right then & there.

 

[drjeff]

If Mount Snow can pull it off and stay open beyond Okemo and Killington, I think they might do pretty well, or at least break even. I have no data to back that up, but it seems to me with all the whining about Killington closing earlier than they historically used to, there has to be a decent sized group that would take advantage of them being open later. Snow is easily accessible from the NYC metro and even Boston so there's opportunity there. The should sell 2008-09 passes on the way in/out.

Believe me, unless you're blind, you can't miss the signs in and around the base area advertising the '08/'09 Season passes.

Personally, while how Powdr has chosen to manage Killington has made it "nicer" for Peak Resorts and Mount Snow this year, I don't think that it has made as much of a difference as folks think. Tim Boyd and Peak have said from day 1 after the deal with ASC closed last year that he/they truely feel that Mount Snow is/can be one of the premier mountains in the East. Tim has also said that no if ands or buts about it, Mount Snow is the premier holding in Peak's staple of resorts and that he plans on running it that way. They invested alot of $$ in the fan guns this past summer and are spending alot more $$ on more fan guns this summer, and while mother nature has been very cooperative weather wise this season, the more buzz they get from staying open longer will directly be incorporated into next years marketing. All of this I really feel would have happened even if Powdr chose to run Killington in it's "traditional" fashion, but IMHO it hasn't really changed how Mount Snow ran this season, they were going to "go big" no matter what this year.

 

[Greg]

Believe me, unless you're blind, you can't miss the signs in and around the base area advertising the '08/'09 Season passes.

I'm thinking even go bigger than that. Set up a tent right at the clock tower ticket window and make it very easy to buy passes. Indicate to the customer that the pass is valid that day. Sell lots of beer in the same area.

Personally, while how Powdr has chosen to manage Killington has made it "nicer" for Peak Resorts and Mount Snow this year, I don't think that it has made as much of a difference as folks think. Tim Boyd and Peak have said from day 1 after the deal with ASC closed last year that he/they truely feel that Mount Snow is/can be one of the premier mountains in the East. Tim has also said that no if ands or buts about it, Mount Snow is the premier holding in Peak's staple of resorts and that he plans on running it that way. They invested alot of $$ in the fan guns this past summer and are spending alot more $$ on more fan guns this summer, and while mother nature has been very cooperative weather wise this season, the more buzz they get from staying open longer will directly be incorporated into next years marketing. All of this I really feel would have happened even if Powdr chose to run Killington in it's "traditional" fashion, but IMHO it hasn't really changed how Mount Snow ran this season, they were going to "go big" no matter what this year.

I will say the base area at Snow looks fantastic now. I was there for Oktoberfest and in November and was impressed with how fresh everything looked. New paint, roofs, etc. It should be interesting to see how far they can/are willing to push the season.

 

[loafer89]

Powdr discouraged me from sking at Killington/Pico with a shorter ski season/reduced service and I gladly take me money to Boyne. There is a huge difference in how much snow has been made on the trails at Sunday River, the level of service is much better and the staff much frendlier now that they are no longer employed with the Titanic of skiing companies.

Similarly to what jrjeff was saying about Peaks and Mount Snow, Boyne brought in a fresh vision to the ski areas they own and would probably not care much what Powdr does as far as ski operations are concerned as they have there own sense of direction.

 

[2knees]

I totally agree with the comments about Boyne and Peak. New owners, new direction. I dont think they give a rats arse what killington does or did. What about sugarbush though? any opinion there from the locals?

 

[Vortex]

Make no mistake Boyne is working on the boston market that goes to Vt. It started with the Red sox promotion. Seems like Boyne is getting some of the metro Boston group. Staying open late and opening earlier than other areas is all part of the plan. K brand name. not so strong any more.

Peaks has done well also. K and it patrons are the left out.

 

[loafer89]

Back in April of 2007 alot of people where jumping for joy that ASC sold off Killington/Pico and when I saw that it was Powdr Corp who would be doing the ski operations part of running killington, I foresaw the resulting short season and crappy customer service.

If you look at what they own out west, Mount Batchelor used to ski into July and they now close in Mid-May, I skied at the Las Vegas Ski And snowboard Resort, which is owned by Powdr and frankly the place is a run down piece of @hit.

I really do not expect Powdr to put any effort at all into regaining the length of season that Killington once had, and happily for me I finally get to ski Sugarloaf in May as an indirect result.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Sugarbush always used to stay open until May...not this year...so an earlier closing date at Sugarbush due to an earlier closing date at Killington..makes sense...and Hunter just gave up..booo

 

[Greg]

Sugarbush always used to stay open until May...not this year...so an earlier closing date at Sugarbush due to an earlier closing date at Killington..makes sense...and Hunter just gave up..booo

Not sure I've seen anywhere that Sugarbush is not going to try to reopen for a weekend in May. And don't you think Killington not being open will result in the opposite - more potential skier visits that SB could tap into?

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Not sure I've seen anywhere that Sugarbush is not going to try to reopen for a weekend in May. And don't you think Killington not being open will result in the opposite - more potential skier visits that SB could tap into?

Yes because Jeff who has been a passholder and homeowner at Killington for decades is pissed at Killington and taking his spring business to Sugarbush..

 

[BeanoNYC]

I think that ASC put all their energy into keeping Killington open late. Now that Mount Snow is not an ASC company they can go for broke.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think the biggest effect on late season skiing this year is all of the transfers in ownership. It's a big proving season for the new operators. I'll be interested to see if the trend continues next year. Hopefully it does and to an even greater extent. It would be nice to see a few 'glaciers' pop up around New England next year.

 

[Greg]

I think the biggest effect on late season skiing this year is all of the transfers in ownership. It's a big proving season for the new operators. I'll be interested to see if the trend continues next year. Hopefully it does and to an even greater extent. It would be nice to see a few 'glaciers' pop up around New England next year.

It seems to me that Snow built a pretty impressive base using the new fan guns this season. They should have an even better chance at glacier building next season once the West Lake project is completed.

 

[2knees]

It seems to me that Snow built a pretty impressive base using the new fan guns this season. They should have an even better chance at glacier building next season once the West Lake project is completed.

West Lake project? I thought it was the Somerset reservoir they were trying to hook up to.