Killingtons Like??

[Bubbartzky]

Crowds are relative - everywhere you go in the east on a weekend is crowded. Actually, for the most part, I've found Killington far less crowded than many other places on weekends. Lift lines, except at key lifts such as the K-1, Snowshed, and the Skye Peak mid-station are not generally a problem on most Saturdays and Sundays are far better. Weekday crowds is an oxymoron. Crowded cafeterias on weekends is a given here and anywhere else - it's just the way it is. Pick an off-peak hour to eat, that's all.

The good part about Killington - being able to get anywhere from anywhere on a green trail - is also the bad part. I can take novices anywhere around the mountain to show people what they can try later on when they improve but those same trails break up the continuous vertical and cause a few bottlenecks. If you know where the bottlenecks are, you avoid them.

Snowmaking has improved over the past few years with the start up of the Woodward Reservoir pipeline so K recovers more quickly from thaws and freezes. They also expand more quickly early season, weather permitting, because they essentially have unlimited water supply. Their ability to blow continuously later on in the season is, admittedly, limited by revenue goals and budgetary constraints, and the days of late season skiing on Superstar are finished.

Killington, unfortunately, suffers from the same problems faced by all ASC resorts - lack of adequate capital reinvestment. They're barely maintaining what they have and there have been few, if any, real improvements over the past 5 years. I'd expect that pattern to continue. They also suffer from short-staffing and morale issues. Management, primarily due to the limitations placed upon it by ASC, talks a good game but does not have the resources to follow through. Too many times, they talk the talk but fail to walk the walk, and this is transparent to guests and staff alike. That takes its toll over time in customer service and employee attitudes toward guests. Their in-house measurements of customer service have, however, been improving due to at least a focus on this issue but they still have a long way to go.

My view of Killington management can be summarized as follows: "They're doing the best they can." Now, is that the good news or the bad news? I'm not sure. :wink:

 

[Cityskier]

I learned to ski and fell in love with the sport at Killington so it will always be a special place to me. I personally find what ASC has allowed to happen to the place to be heart breaking. Chronic underfunding by ASC has allowed the infrastructure of the resort to begin to crumble. The base lodges look dilapidated and unkempt, the help is largely unhelpful, and great promise has turned into great frustration.

My big bro was a great tutor so I know when to be where and have largely been successful in avoiding crowds. While the trail structure can be frustrating, dodging the less experienced has greaty improved my skiing, so I guess it's a plus. Thankfully mother nature was in charge of the terrain, not ASC, so there is still a lot to love.

Desperate improvements are needed in the on-mountain operations department. It's beyond pathetic that Killington cannot hire competent help. Aspects of the skiing experience as basic as setting up a lift corral and managing lift lines are carried out in dismal fashion. After negotiating lift lines at Whistler that ran like clockwork, the experience at K was glaringly bad. And don't even get me started on the food...

My issues with the resort seem without exception to be directed at the management. I realize that they are cripplingly underfunded, but a great portion of the guest experience seems to be compromised by a lack of attention to detail. Whether due to inadequate staffing or poor management it needs to be fixed. Hopefully the financial situation will be resolved sooner than later and the once-proud king of New England skiing can show off it's stuff.

Regardless, I can't wait until the snow flies so I can go back to where it all began for me.

 

[thetrailboss]

Hmmmm....I thought this was a "why I like Killington" thread.... :-?

 

[riverc0il]

So it's all about the volume....

nothing to do with volume or else other areas that receive a high volume would have similar love/hate issues. not many people hating on places like bush, jay, stowe, etc. and i have never heard any one hate on burke other than the slow summit quad... even with low volume, you would statistically expect at least one person to take issue.

kmart has a lot to hate. even if you love the place, you gotta admit there is a lot to dislike about kmart. i am the first person to step up and agree that some of my favorite mountains can be bitterly cold, windy, and icy. they have their faults, as does every area, kmart is no different.

it is by far the most crowded ski area around which also makes it rather dangerous. you can cry till the cows come home how easy it is to avoid the crowds at kmart, the place is a zoo. a lot of bad attitude and general rudenss from many skiers and riders there too. and no character trails. i could go on... but you know the reasons people don't like it since you started the thread. they are legitiment reasons not to like the place, you are a fool if you won't admit that whether you enjoy skiing kmart or not.

does the mountain have legit terrain? absolutely! no one is denying kmart has legit terrain, albeit most trails are the size of a football field and even kmarts steepest is boring in any aestetical sense. but it isn't the best terrain in new england and isn't worth the price or hassle except to ski early season. i'd rather hike, no closet for me thanks.

 

[riverc0il]

I don't know of too many places where on the weekend you don't have to try to beat the crowd.

burke, cannon, magic, wildcat, saddleback, etc. if you are into the mid-sized, black, ragged, tenney, etc. i skied on lifts many times at jay last season (obviously not on a powder day). i rarely have a beat the crowd mentality except on powder days. two minutes is a long lift line, imo.

Crowds are relative - everywhere you go in the east on a weekend is crowded.

you should try some of the areas i listed above if you really believe that.

 

[awf170]

Dog, Good for you for sticking up for your mountain. I have to admit I’m a K-hater. The place is just too crowded for me. I think it’s biggest problem is that over the years there was half-assed expansion and now what you’re left with is a mountain criss-crossed with trails and high speed lifts.

You have experts trying to get somewhere and they have to cross where there are beginners.

Their lift capacity puts too many people on their trails at once.

When they have snow it gets skied off fast by the masses.

It has 3000 feet of vert but really it skis in 1,000 to 1,500 chunks.

It’s like a big maze with thousands of rats scarring around bagging into each other.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

That's just it, you're always trying to beat the crowd at Kmart. It's not the kind of experience I prefer.

Agreed. I don't want to have to always think about getting away from the crowds and always switching parts of the mountain because you know the crowds will get there soon.

I don't know of too many places where on the weekend you don't have to try to beat the crowd. In fact Magic and Willard were the only places I was at last year that didn't have a beat the crowd mentality on the weekend. I was a K-mart pres. week (thurs) and the only crowd issue was the K1, other then that no lines and great skiing.

At Wildcat and Cannon I have never had to think about beating the crowds. I understand that there are about 5 trails I should avoid, but that is it.

And, yes Killington doesn't seem to have that long of lines but that is because all 10,000 of them are on the trail in your way.

The one thing that still gives me any hope for Killington is there O.B. glades, and that is the only reason I would ever go back. Probably the only place you can avoid the crowds.

 

[Newpylong]

Killington is one of my favorite places, along with Sugabush. Funny, both are entirely different mountains..

Anyway, I can get downright irrate when I think of where the mountain has been going in the last decade or so though.

A) No longer first to open, first to close.

B) DELETION of terrain. In a day and age where places are expanding to stay competitive, the ASC has cut terrain there. Sunrise was abandoned, the top of Rams Head was abandoned. The Needle's Eye Quad replaced the double, using a new liftline that didn't even go to the old summit of the lift. A waste....

C) Lack of snowmaking on signature trails... Each winter we are forced to practically pick between the trails we want open. The best one that comes to mind is Devil's Fiddle and Ovation. Lack of snowmaking on trails that even have snowmaking (Pipe Dream, Valley Plunge, Swirl, etc.).

D) Terrain Parks are Bear. Everyone knows freestyle is the new hot thing. But you don't need to dedicate an entire portion of a mountain to it, especially bits and pieces of trails. Just give them one or two entire trails overt there, giving others a NON criss cross way of getting around Outer Limits. Wildfire, Skyeburst, Bear Trap, Claw, etc. used to be awesome cruisers at bear. Not anymore due to the parks.

E) Incompetent Staff. I don't know if the other players hire their staff from abroad but the ones at the Big K plain suck. They are just there for the winter and they couldn't care less about their job. Whether they were just learning the art of snowmaking or full time, they also could be found making snow. Having worked at a ski area I consider this an art and a downright shame to have these people setting guns up.

F) I haven't found a place more expensive to eat outside of Vail than Killington.

G) Trail and Lift renamings. STOP RENAMING THE TRAILS for god's sake. You can't even recognize the trail map anymore...

H) Connector trails. I honestly think they are used so frequently here because the mountain is too cheap to run all the lifts to take the people out, so they have to cut across or they are stuck.

 

[mattchuck2]

Killington is a great mountain . . . on weekdays. Otherwise, I try to avoid the place. It's a lot like Hunter in that respect. Great mountain, but not on a weekend.

 

[hiroto]

This is pretty interesting discussion for me because I haven't been there for
10 years since my first kid was born. This spring, we had a one week vacation
at K planned but had to cancel due to my son's appendicitis. We have full credit
for our trip valid for a year (which was very nice of them because we had to cancel
like 5 days before the trip) so we are planning to go there next season.

I always liked the place and was excited to ski there with my son for the
first time. I'm now concerned with those comment that the place had deteriorated
significantly over the past decade. Is it really that bad? I thought that it was
pretty crowded place before but I recollect that there were always nice quiet
trails here and there.

So giving that I have been tolerating Wawa weekend crowd for last 7 years
(which was unthinkable when I was single), do you think I would find K totally
unacceptable? I was hoping K would make a good family skiing destination
because it is unique in New England that the most of the mountain peaks are
accesible by beginner trail (although I hated the fact when I was single )

 

[Tyrolean_skier]

SkiDork and I like Killington so much that we bought a place there to reduce our staying costs. We also bought bond passes. I like it because of the amount of terrain that is available. I never ski all the trails in one day. I also enjoy skiing tree runs especially on crowded weekend because there are less people in them and they are much more interesting that regular trails. I've been to other mountains and enjoyed my skiing experience there but Killington is my home mountain. It is the place to be if you are single. I don't think many of the other mountains have as much nightlife as Killington has. I remember always having a good time when I was single and in a ski house. It also has some nice restaurants. Because we have two young children, we don't go out often but when we do join friends for happy hour we have always had a good time. Because of www.killingtonzone.com and the old K-chat room, I have made many many friends and I do not need to worry that I will be skiing alone on any given day. The exception might be during vacation weeks when I was up there by myself with the kids and the kids were in their respective programs. BTW, my kids great skiing skills can be attributed to the First Tracks and Ministar programs at Killington. This coming season they will both be participating in the Killington Ski Club - one in the racing program and the other in the freestyle program. My son has surpassed me in skiing ability and my daughter is not far behind.

Of course, I don't like the shortened season or the lack of repairs in certain areas and can only hope that things will improve in the future. I am hoping that next season we will be blessed with a lot of snow from Mother Nature - enough to let us start skiing in October again and skiing until the end of May.

 

[thetrailboss]

Ty--what is a "bond pass?"

 

[Vortex]

Ty and dork and AndyZee are among the people I'm talking about when I speak of good people at K . Look them up. post with many there, these people extend a hand and show you around. Actions.....Kbubba also brings forth alot of info that gives a newbie a handle on what happens, glad he has stopped in. Again I say K's voice still is heard loud. If it was not such a big deal we would not talk about it. I hope the Az challenge sheds some light on the questions and sometime neg feelings. Gives a bit of accoutability. Actions....

 

[SkiDog]

Hmmmm....I thought this was a "why I like Killington" thread.... :-?

Na...this was to provoke or stimulate conversation...like I said...its like Yanks being hated...people ALWAYS love the hate whos on top....I wanted everyone perspective..thats all

carry on..

M

 

[SkiDog]

I like this...so far it seems the general concensus is that Killington is "good" and the basic issues we all have with them are MANAGEMENT related...

I agree with Coil that the trails are now basically football fields wide and lack that "new england" character...they wanted too much to cater to the "weekender" and not stay with the "core" that used to be Killington. It is hardly the same mountain it was 15 years ago...heck it isnt the same mountain it was 5 years ago.....its sad in that respect, but again can be directly attributed to poor management...

I like k...I have a condo there....I ski every other weekend in the winter there....

Oh yeah and what they did to Bear Mtn....makes me sick to my stomach...

M

 

[Bubbartzky]

This is pretty interesting discussion for me because I haven't been there for
10 years since my first kid was born. This spring, we had a one week vacation
at K planned but had to cancel due to my son's appendicitis. We have full credit
for our trip valid for a year (which was very nice of them because we had to cancel
like 5 days before the trip) so we are planning to go there next season.

I always liked the place and was excited to ski there with my son for the
first time. I'm now concerned with those comment that the place had deteriorated
significantly over the past decade. Is it really that bad? I thought that it was
pretty crowded place before but I recollect that there were always nice quiet
trails here and there.

So giving that I have been tolerating Wawa weekend crowd for last 7 years
(which was unthinkable when I was single), do you think I would find K totally
unacceptable? I was hoping K would make a good family skiing destination
because it is unique in New England that the most of the mountain peaks are
accesible by beginner trail (although I hated the fact when I was single )

No, it's not that bad. As I said, I think the crowds are exaggerated and, no, except for early season when there isn't that much terrain open, the place is not dangerous. Yes, there are some popular lifts and popular trails that, due to their popularity can get crowded - they're crowded because they're popular and they're fun. And, yes, there are a couple of places on the mountain where the term "mixing bowl" is appropriate but, in general, the areas like Rams Head (family ski area) and Snowshed (novice) are enjoyable even on Saturdays and long green and blue runs like Great Eastern and Home Stretch are a blast. Lift lines, even at Snowshed and Rams Head are OK except around 9:15 - 10:00 when the classes are coming out. Base lodges do get crowded around lunchtime on Saturdays, for sure, but eat at 11:30 or after 1:00 and you'll be OK.

While some of us say the place is looking rundown, we also tend to exaggerate that a bit - Snowshed base lodge's cafeteria was completely redone two years ago into a food court environment. K-1 Base (or what used to be known as the Killington Base Lodge) has been fixed up with remodeled bathrooms and new carpet, and all the base lodges got a long needed fresh coat of paint several years ago. They're putting money into replacing snowmaking pipe even if they have a long way to go. The fact is, Killington has been capital limited and looks it in places.

Food prices are high but that's to be expected. I wish the food quality tracked the prices but, while lots of improvement is still necessary, food quality has been improving over the past few years.

If you're coming to Killington with the family this winter, I would log on to www.killingtonzone.com this fall and start asking questions about the ski school for the kids, trails and times to be there, etc. and get a flavor for the place before you come. Knowing some of the ins and outs in advance certainly helps improve the experience. Killington is big, it can be confusing, and it can be overwhelming at first but it's also among the best places in the east for skiers and riders of all abilities.

 

[SkiDog]

SkiDog - we should hook up this season. Not sure if I've ever met you. Do you post on KZOne? There's a SkiDogg over there (good guy) who I've skied with a number of times but I don't think thats you

Having skied eery marked trail at K, the trees are the place for me. I'm working on my tree skiing, and my pow skiing and there are places at K where I could just continue doing laps in the trees, never get bored, and never wait on a lift line. Even on a Saturday.

Like Ty said - the folks we've hooked up with on the old Kchat and now the Kzone are a special bunch. Lots of fun times in the past, and looking forward to more in the future.

The sheer size of K is another one of my primary reasons for liking it.

I have not set up an account at K-Zone, but I probably should...ive been skiing killington since I was a kid, but only in the last 10 years have had a condo there...im in Pinnacle right behind Sante Fe....

we should DEFINATELY hook up ESPECIALLY if you like the trees..I could live in there...and agree...you hardly see a soul..

Come ski season we'll definately hook up to make some turns..where you from?

hope to ski with ya soon

M

 

[tirolerpeter]

K Mart Pluses

Hey Hiroto, Bubbartzky has given you some excellent advice. I think the key to a good experience with a kid is advance planning. I don't know what age or ages your kids are, but you can save yourself a lot of hassle and time if they are "geared up" even before you hit the mountain. If your kids don't have their own gear, rent it before you even drive to K. Get them booted up at your hotel room and have their appropriate layers of clothing sorted, bagged (in clear plastic), and tagged if needed before you get in the car. Teach them to carry their own skiis, etc., get organized. While there is a lot of excellent novice terrain at K, the biggest problem with kids (adults too) is getting accidentally split up. One miss at a trail juncture can lose you a kid for hours. I know, I had my three skiing there when the age spread ran from 6 to 13. I usually let the 13 year old go off, and set up a meet (he was a very smart dependable type even then). One way to beat that issue is to ski over at Pico. All the trails lead to the general base area. If your kids can handle trails safely on their own, set them up to ski a specific set of trails and ONE lift for a few runs, and you can go rip up a few on your own, and still find them. A lot depends upon the maturity level of the kids, and the anxiety level of your spouse. My wife didn't ski, didn't go with us, and now many years later still doesn't. The kids and I loved it then and still do. The age spread is now 23 - 30.
As an adult, I enjoy K with friends who ski as well or better than I do, and we find and hammer some of K's excellent "Expert" terrain. I do find the many "green" cross trails an issue at times because some of them come up suddenly and can produce some unintended or even intended "air" time. The problem is not being able to see if someone is traversing just below your line of vision. Of course, on week-ends, when it is somewhat crowded, you just assume that you have to pull up and look both ways. But, I ski only mid-week, and have a tendency to "let it run" a bit since the trails are so empty. That is when I find the risk is actually greater.
Also, due to staffing issues I do get annoyed at the limited number of lifts they run mid-week causing a lot of "green" traversing to get to a lift that re-accesses some good runs. Finally, since Ovation is either often closed, or dangerously bare or icy, thus eliminating the cut-through near the base lodge, there is no easy way to get from the Superstar side of the Mountain over to the K1 Gondola side. This results in either skating across the lodge area, or hitting it at warp speed to get as far across as possible. That of course is a risk all on its own if someone makes a bad move in front of you.

 

[SkiDork]

I have not set up an account at K-Zone, but I probably should...ive been skiing killington since I was a kid, but only in the last 10 years have had a condo there...im in Pinnacle right behind Sante Fe....

we should DEFINATELY hook up ESPECIALLY if you like the trees..I could live in there...and agree...you hardly see a soul..

Come ski season we'll definately hook up to make some turns..where you from?

hope to ski with ya soon

M

Ty, myself and the 2 kids live in Merrick, LI. We're over at Glazebrook

I'm "getting into" the trees, but I'm not a tree expert (yet). Some of the guys on the Kzone that I ski the trees with kick my butt and have to wait for me at the bottom. I picked up a pair of Phantom Crystal Ships, which has helped me TREMENDOUSLY in the pow but I still can't get down as fast as those guys. In fact my 9 year old son kicks my butt too... But the pow in there is usally incredible compared to the trails, so in I go...

The KZoners have a weekend 10 AM meeting where a bunch of us hook up, then we usually break into seperate groups depending on what you're into skiing that day... Saturday night we usually all hook up at happy hour, this past year we frequented the new place called Jax a lot - some of us have kids and they have a pretty large game room... We also hit up Sanat Fe, and the bar at the Summit. Of course we also do Jurassic Park (Grist Mill) a lot too.

 

[SkiDork]

BTW - the bond passes we bought were old bonds that Killington had sold (back in the 60s) which have long since been paid off. But the bondholder was given lifetime skiing, and was also allowed to sell those bonds so that what we purched. I found them on eBay but you can also find them in the Mountain Times, Rutland Herald etc. They've prolly gone down in price since the season pass price has gone down...

 

[SkiDog]

Ty, myself and the 2 kids live in Merrick, LI. We're over at Glazebrook

I'm "getting into" the trees, but I'm not a tree expert (yet). Some of the guys on the Kzone that I ski the trees with kick my butt and have to wait for me at the bottom. I picked up a pair of Phantom Crystal Ships, which has helped me TREMENDOUSLY in the pow but I still can't get down as fast as those guys. In fact my 9 year old son kicks my butt too... But the pow in there is usally incredible compared to the trails, so in I go...

The KZoners have a weekend 10 AM meeting where a bunch of us hook up, then we usually break into seperate groups depending on what you're into skiing that day... Saturday night we usually all hook up at happy hour, this past year we frequented the new place called Jax a lot - some of us have kids and they have a pretty large game room... We also hit up Sanat Fe, and the bar at the Summit. Of course we also do Jurassic Park (Grist Mill) a lot too.

We'll have to catch up for sure...10 o'clock?? man ive skied 20 runs by 10...at least ;-)

well 10...im an early riser...

M