Leash law opinions

[dmc]

Those straps are part of the binding. They are not considered to be the "retention straps". What about the older style of step in alpine bindings ??

There are many laws that are outdated, but it's the resorts decision, as dictated by the liabilty ins. carrier, to enforce it or not.

Keep trying... but I'm done...

Hey - genius - Your ski breaks are part of the binding as well...
What does the binding strap do if it doesn't retain? what is it's purpose?

Plate bindings and step in's - TOTALLY need a strap...

Your not done... I got a least two more beers at the hotel bar to keep this up...

 

[2Planker]

And YES ski brakes do occasionally fail, BUT if you have one, you would most likely not be faulted. If you don't have the equipment required by a federal law, that's a whole different ballgame.

 

[dmc]

And YES ski brakes do occasionally fail, BUT if you have one, you would most likely not be faulted. If you don't have the equipment required by a federal law, that's a whole different ballgame.

The State law says -

Article 18 - PLEASE READ CAREFULLY

18-105. Duties of Skiers/Snowboarders

All skiers/snowboarders shall have the following duties:

1. Not to ski/board in any area not designated for skiing;
2. Not to ski/board beyond their limits or ability to overcome variations in slope, trail configuration and surface or subsurface conditions which may be caused or altered by weather, slope or trail maintenance work by the ski area operator, or skier use;
3. To abide by the directions of the ski area operator;
4. To remain in constant control of speed and course at all times while skiing so as to avoid contact with plainly visible or clearly marked obstacles and with other skiers/boarders and passengers on surface operating tramways;
5. To familiarize themselves with posted information before skiing/boarding any slope or trail, including all information posted pursuant to subdivision five of section 18-103 of this article;
6. Not to cross the uphill track of any surface lift, except at points clearly designated by the ski area operator;
7. Not to ski/board on a slope or trail or portion thereof that has been designated as "closed " by the ski area operator;
8. Not to leave the scene of any accident resulting in personal injury to another party until such times as the ski area operator arrives, except for the purpose of summoning aid;
9. Not to overtake another skier/boarder in such a manner as to cause contact with the skier being overtaken and to yield the right of way to the skier/boarder being overtaken;
10. Not to willfully stop on any slope or trail where such stopping is likely to cause a collision with other skiers/boarders or vehicles;
11. To yield to other skiers/boarders when entering a trail or starting downhill;
12. To wear retention straps or other devices to prevent runaway skis/boards;
13. To report any personal injury to the ski area operator before leaving the ski area; and
14. Not to willfully remove, deface, alter or otherwise damage signage, warning devices or implements, or other safety devices placed and maintained by the ski area operator pursuant to the requirements of section 18-103 of this article.

Bindings have straps.... remember... Like I said... 2 per binding...

 

[2Planker]

The binding strap is what the lawmakers are referring to in "equipment failure". Therefore in their eyes, you need a back up system, that will retain the board.


The ski BRAKE stops the ski.

 

[2Planker]

The State law says -

Article 18 - PLEASE READ CAREFULLY

18-105. Duties of Skiers/Snowboarders

All skiers/snowboarders shall have the following duties:

1. Not to ski/board in any area not designated for skiing;
2. Not to ski/board beyond their limits or ability to overcome variations in slope, trail configuration and surface or subsurface conditions which may be caused or altered by weather, slope or trail maintenance work by the ski area operator, or skier use;
3. To abide by the directions of the ski area operator;
4. To remain in constant control of speed and course at all times while skiing so as to avoid contact with plainly visible or clearly marked obstacles and with other skiers/boarders and passengers on surface operating tramways;
5. To familiarize themselves with posted information before skiing/boarding any slope or trail, including all information posted pursuant to subdivision five of section 18-103 of this article;
6. Not to cross the uphill track of any surface lift, except at points clearly designated by the ski area operator;
7. Not to ski/board on a slope or trail or portion thereof that has been designated as "closed " by the ski area operator;
8. Not to leave the scene of any accident resulting in personal injury to another party until such times as the ski area operator arrives, except for the purpose of summoning aid;
9. Not to overtake another skier/boarder in such a manner as to cause contact with the skier being overtaken and to yield the right of way to the skier/boarder being overtaken;
10. Not to willfully stop on any slope or trail where such stopping is likely to cause a collision with other skiers/boarders or vehicles;
11. To yield to other skiers/boarders when entering a trail or starting downhill;
12. To wear retention straps or other devices to prevent runaway skis/boards;
13. To report any personal injury to the ski area operator before leaving the ski area; and
14. Not to willfully remove, deface, alter or otherwise damage signage, warning devices or implements, or other safety devices placed and maintained by the ski area operator pursuant to the requirements of section 18-103 of this article.

Bindings have straps.... remember... Like I said... 2 per binding...

Once for all -- The binding strap is NOT the retention strap. They are 2 separate entities.

 

[dmc]

The binding strap is what the lawmakers are referring to in "equipment failure". Therefore in their eyes, you need a back up system, that will retain the board.


The ski BRAKE stops the ski.

OK... So one binding fails... the other binding is the backup...

What's you backup for your 2 planks? What happens if your ski break fails? You said it can happen..

next???

 

[dmc]

Once for all -- The binding strap is NOT the retention strap. They are 2 separate entities.

So if it isn't a retention strap the WTF is it? Just there for show? To make us look cool?

The STATE law says

12. To wear retention straps or other devices to prevent runaway skis/boards;

We have 2 per binding... AND we have two bindings on one deck...

Thats pretty damn failsafe... I've NEVER lost a board in over 20 years of snowboarding..

 

[2Planker]

OK... So one binding fails... the other binding is the backup...

What's you backup for your 2 planks? What happens if your ski break fails? You said it can happen next???

As I said, if I am complying w/ the law, most likely it would not be my fault, should something occcur w/ a runaway ski.... The ski brake IS the back up ! Just as your retention strap could fail (seen that too), but if you have one, you're good.

 

[dmc]

As I said, if I am complying w/ the law, most likely it would not be my fault, should something occcur w/ a runaway ski.... The ski brake IS the back up ! Just as your retention strap could fail (seen that too), but if you have one, you're good.

I am complying with the law...

the law states we all need to
"wear retention straps or other devices to prevent runaway skis/boards; "

I have 2 bindings holding me to the deck and each binding has (AGAIN) 2 straps...
Even if I lose 2 straps off one binding i have a backup..

total redundant fail-over..

 

[2Planker]

One Last Time -- The binding straps are NOT the retention straps. In the eyes of the lawmakers you need BOTH

 

[dmc]

One Last Time -- The binding straps are NOT the retention straps. In the eyes of the lawmakers you need BOTH

Once again.... Here's the law... So far I've been the only one that can produce this.. Have yet to see any real evidence that you are correct..
"To wear retention straps or other devices to prevent runaway skis/boards; "

Show me where the "Eyes of the lawmakers" say differently and I'll admit your right...
And don't say cause some freaky anti-snowboarding Ski Patrol guy for Plattekill says so..

 

[2Planker]

I know the law because I've been patrolling since 1982. (and used to ski w/ Jake Burton, as he was toying around w/ the prototypes. In the early days of boarding, all riders were checked for their retention straps. No strap = No Lift Ride

The law hasn't changed.....

 

[dmc]

I know the law because I've been patrolling since 1982. (and used to ski w/ Jake Burton, as he was toying around w/ the prototypes_ In the early days, all riders were checked for retention straps. No strap = No Lift Ride

The law hasn't changed.....

Show me the law... I could care less about Papa Jake or if you patrol...

Show me the law - until then.... Your just talking crap.. Just show me the law...

 

[2Planker]

You're the one who graciously posted it. That's the law. The binding straps are NOT the same as the retention straps.

The resorts I've worked for (VT, NH, ME) all enforce it much less than they used to , when equipment failure was much more common, but if it's a federal law, then there is not much you or I can do about it.

Boarder gear IS much better now, and it probably should be reinvestigated.

 

[dmc]

You're the one who graciously posted it. That's the law. The binding straps are NOT the same as the retention straps.

The resorts I've worked for (VT, NH, ME) all enforce it much less than they used to , when equipment failure was much more common, but if it's a federal law, then there is not much you or I can do about it.

Boarder gear IS much better now, and it probably should be reinvestigated.

Smartest thing you've said all night...

But I disagree with the NOT statement.. Binding straps are used to hold you to the deck..
And I have yet to see your produce a federal law. I believe it's all state law...

 

[2Planker]

Could be... I'll have to make a call on that one, BUT either way, it is adopted by all NE states, and NY and PA

 

[dmc]

Could be... I'll have to make a call on that one, BUT either way, it is adopted by all NE states, and NY and PA

Make a call - get back to me...

In the meantime... I'll tell any patroller that I can't ride a lift without some leash he's totally wrong and see if he stops me...

Leashes are dangerous - especially at a place like Platekill where woods skiing is popular... If they tell me to wear one and I catch it on a tree and break a leg... I won't be happy...

 

[2Planker]

I'll agree w/ you there... When it was written, runaway skis and snoboards were a problem. First skis, then boards had to have straps. Not exactly sure when the modern ski brake came into existence, but I know my first new pair without straps was Olin Mark IV's in 1979...

It's not usually a Patroller's job to stop you, that usually falls upon the lifties. We just clean up things...

 

[2Planker]

You might find this article interesting...

http://userpages.monmouth.com/~dschutz/leash.htm

 

[Cannonball]

Thank you for providing that link. The author describes the issue more clearly and succinctly than anyone else has on this thread.

However, there is still one significant flaw. When I started snowboarding 15 years ago the leashes were exactly as described in the article. They were long and they were meant to be worn around the ankle. They were a hassle but if used properly they did serve the purpose as described in the article. I have not seen that type of leash for sale for at least ten years. Now they are 3-6" long and attach directly from the binding to the boot or ankle. This is what every poster in this thread is talking about (and is mentioned in the article). This has zero utility since it can only be attached AFTER you are already strapped in.

Would I wear the old style leash? Not likely. But at least I'd agree with the purpose.

Sideline: I did remember a runaway board incident. It was at an upper mountain lodge. A skier was putting his skies in the rack, knocked over EVERYONE'S gear, and sent a snowboard hurtling down the hill and into the woods. A leash would have done nothing in that case. I imagine this happens more frequently than any of the other runaway board scenarios. So maybe a braking system really does need to be invented. Heck, if you could invent it and get it written into the law you could make a killing.