LiftBlog Reports that Smuggs and Stowe are Exploring an Interconnect Gondola

[thetrailboss]

Apparently this is pretty far along in the planning.

Smugglers’ Notch and Stowe Propose Interconnect Gondola

Two of Vermont’s largest ski resorts could be connected by gondola under a plan uncovered by the Morrisville News and Citizen. Stowe Mountain Resort parent Vail Resorts and longtime Smugglers…

liftblog.com

 

[deadheadskier]

Be interested to see what the state says. I bet this gets hung up in the courts for a long time.

Hope it fails. This just sets the stage for Smuggs to be sold to Vail.

 

[cdskier]

Hmm....that's interesting. The real question though, what is their ultimate plan? What's the mutual benefit to do this? Almost seems like Vail is trying to buy Smuggs, but perhaps only wants to do it if they can link the resorts first.

 

[jimk]

Can't help but think this is some sort of precursor to Vail acquiring Smuggs and make the two into a mega-resort. Haven't been to Smuggs in 30+ years. Is the infrastructure still ancient?

edit: we're all thinking the same thing

 

[thetrailboss]

Hope it fails. This just sets the stage for Smuggs to be sold to Vail.

I was wondering if this was the overture for the the sale of Smuggs.

 

[thetrailboss]

Be interested to see what the state says. I bet this gets hung up in the courts for a long time.

Hope it fails. This just sets the stage for Smuggs to be sold to Vail.

And DHS, IIRC these two used to have some sort of interconnect back in the AIG days that involved skiing/walking in these same areas. Right?

 

[thetrailboss]

Can't help but think this is some sort of precursor to Vail acquiring Smuggs and make the two into a mega-resort. Haven't been to Smuggs in 30+ years. Is the infrastructure still ancient?

edit: we're all thinking the same thing

I show you Exhibit A, a preview of Vail's marketing for such move.....

 

[deadheadskier]

And DHS, IIRC these two used to have some sort of interconnect back in the AIG days that involved skiing/walking in these same areas. Right?

There's a trail from Spruce to Smuggs. Basically a groomer cat track. Coming back you skate over the pond and down to the Smugglers trail on Spruce.

The arrangement used to be you could switch sides for just one run. If you had a lift ticket, they'd punch a hole in it. If you were a pass holder, you went to the lodge for a free one up ticket.

When I lived in town, we'd go over all the time, typically skiing the Birthday Bowls. We would plead ignorance and ride Madonna or do another lap before a lifty would question us. It was a rarity back then for Smuggs to check passes, so we used to get in several laps on the Smuggs side before heading back to Spruce.

 

[thetrailboss]

There's a trail from Spruce to Smuggs. Basically a groomer cat track. Coming back you skate over the pond and down to the Smugglers trail on Spruce.

The arrangement used to be you could switch sides for just one run. If you had a lift ticket, they'd punch a hole in it. If you were a pass holder, you went to the lodge for a free one up ticket.

When I lived in town, we'd go over all the time, typically skiing the Birthday Bowls. We would plead ignorance and ride Madonna or do another lap before a lifty would question us. It was a rarity back then for Smuggs to check passes, so we used to get in several laps on the Smuggs side before heading back to Spruce.

Oh, I did not realize that the arrangement was for only one run. I thought that they had some sort of joint ticket.

 

[deadheadskier]

Oh, I did not realize that the arrangement was for only one run. I thought that they had some sort of joint ticket.

If they did it was pre 1995 when I moved to town. From 95-2005 at least, the arrangement was a one up.

 

[jaytrem]

1979 Smuggs map says tickets not interchangeable. Not a ton of maps on skimap.org for Smuggs.

Sale price with no gondola approved $, sale price with gondola approved $$$$.

 

[ceo]

This is... surprising. I can't think of a rationale for this plan that isn't "preparation for selling Smuggs to Vail". Which would also be surprising, one would think Vail would be the absolute last place that an operation so invested in their throwback, "pure skiing" character would want to sell to. On the other hand, I'm sure Vail would offer quite a kingly sum for the opportunity to create what would be one of the largest resorts in the East. But that only works if they can get the interconnect gondola approved, which is presumably why they're going through that process now.
I'm just assuming Vail will waste no time replacing M1, Sterling and Morse (at least) with detachable quads, and everyone will piss and moan, but at least that way I'll be able to bring my kid there. (Smuggs is an absolute disaster if you're a solo parent with a kid in ski school; the one time I tried this I got in three runs on Madonna and Sterling, on a day with zero lines, before I had to go pick them up.)

 

[JoeB-Z]

Oh, I did not realize that the arrangement was for only one run. I thought that they had some sort of joint ticket.

I was a regular pass holder at Smuggs circa 1990. It was a sweet deal, $229 for a pass and $99 for a lesson pass. As an expert that got you a mountain guide and half a day of skipping lift lines. We would go over to Spruce all the time. It is a quick trip so the gondola? Sometimes the lifties would let us do a few runs but usually just one.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sale price with no gondola approved $, sale price with gondola approved $$$$.

This.

Additionally, IIRC Smuggs did get an Act 250 approval to replace Sterling with a HS6 in like 2007 or so. Then the Great Recession.....so that never happened.

And I also read that Mount Southington is replacing an old Hall Double Chair https://liftblog.com/2023/05/22/mt-southington-to-install-new-triple-chair/ and had already gotten an unnamed buyer for the Hall Double Chair. My first reaction was "Smuggs bought it."

 

[raisingarizona]

Of course Vail is eying up the connect and purchase. You'd be an idiot to not be. It would be the biggest thing in right coastal skiing and would crush Killington's "Beast" status.

 

[ctdubl07]

There is no way 2 private entities are going to share liability and cost. Vail would never not have full control of an asset.

 

[danimals]

I hate to be that guy but here goes:

In the era of mega passes, this makes sense. It makes sense that vail will buy smuggs, and it makes sense that smuggs would want to sell. Most skiers want the high speed lift, high amenities of what Stowe offers. And those people are in their 30's now, and having kids. Those kids will want the same in a decade or so.

The hardcore guys don't mind a long slow lift, low key lodge, etc. But that is not where the money is. If this comes to fruition, I think the biggest downfall will be if vail does anything to limit side country access in the notch. I don't think they will since you can still hike Mansfield, but who knows.

I do wish it was smuggs buying Stowe though.

 

[thetrailboss]

I hate to be that guy but here goes:

In the era of mega passes, this makes sense. It makes sense that vail will buy smuggs, and it makes sense that smuggs would want to sell. Most skiers want the high speed lift, high amenities of what Stowe offers. And those people are in their 30's now, and having kids. Those kids will want the same in a decade or so.

The hardcore guys don't mind a long slow lift, low key lodge, etc. But that is not where the money is. If this comes to fruition, I think the biggest downfall will be if vail does anything to limit side country access in the notch. I don't think they will since you can still hike Mansfield, but who knows.

I do wish it was smuggs buying Stowe though.

I believe that the owner of Smuggs is getting old.

 

[thetrailboss]

There is no way 2 private entities are going to share liability and cost. Vail would never not have full control of an asset.

Well, Vail owns the operating company that is Stowe Mountain Resort, but most of the land is leased from the State (and Vail did not get a lot of the real estate IIRC). So that kind of defeats that argument.

 

[Newpylong]

I can't see why Vail would want Smuggs. Especially when it seems they already overextended themselves with the entire portfolio of Peak resorts.