LiftBlog Reports that Smuggs and Stowe are Exploring an Interconnect Gondola

[Tonyr]

Or they can try and make the connector trails skiable again each way. Although I'm not sure that is possible. I've never been on either trail. I like the tunnel idea but I'd guess that would be super expensive and never approved.

 

[Hawk]

too long... Snowcats move slow

They'd have to do avalanche and ice mitigation in there and that ain't happening.

I just went through there a couple of weeks ago. It's probably 15 minutes if the cat is going top speed. avi danger is not a big threat in there. I have only heard of snow reaching the road once or twice. The gully's are mostly set back from the road.

 

[thetrailboss]

Is it possible to have a snowcat/snow coach connector through the notch? How long would that take one way?

I was thinking of that as a solution as well.

 

[snoseek]

Can't they just groom a path and throw in a handle tow up high? It's not a real long stretch and is cleared out for it mostly.

 

[thetrailboss]

Can't they just groom a path and throw in a handle tow up high? It's not a real long stretch and is cleared out for it mostly.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the land in between Smuggs and Stowe under state ownership and ANR management? If so, it seems that ANR has no real appetite to make it open for more recreation including just allowing this limited use.

 

[deadheadskier]

Or they can try and make the connector trails skiable again each way. Although I'm not sure that is possible. I've never been on either trail. I like the tunnel idea but I'd guess that would be super expensive and never approved.

They are still usable currently if you want. There's a fair bit of CC skiing though, especially coming back to Stowe. Just need passes to both mountains. They used to groom them about once a month. They stopped grooming when a groomer broke through the ice on Sterling Pond.

I think the idea of a temporary carpet or handle tow makes the most sense. I never understood the gondola idea unless they had it go all the way down to each base and not just the transfer spot between areas. It's probably only a quarter mile between the top of Spruce and Sterling

 

[ss20]

A carpet that long would not work as the tensioning systems wouldn't be able to handle that kind of distance. Also at that elevation and exposure to cold/snow it'd be a huge PITA to maintain unless it was covered which might as well make it as "ugly" as a gondola.

A temporary surface lift is ideal (platter pull most likely). BUT with that kind of elevation and snow they get up, again, it'd be a massive labor cost to maintain.

I've said it before in this thread... I have no idea why anyone at either resort thought this would be a good idea or how they thought it would get permitted.

 

[deadheadskier]

Pretty certain this is the product that Saddleback was using temporarily while they replaced the Sandy Lift.

This would be a good option given the sensitive environment being looked at

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[thetrailboss]

I've said it before in this thread... I have no idea why anyone at either resort thought this would be a good idea or how they thought it would get permitted.

As you saw I posited that this was an attempt at an exit plan for the owner of Smuggs. Get Vail to buy him out so he could cash out.

 

[raisingarizona]

RA, not really. Smuggs is not that big, does not have a ton of trails and they are not designed for heavy traffic. Mostly old school twisty NE type trails. Personnally I think the interconnect would ruin smuggs. But that is just me.

I stand by that statement. It “skis” bigger with longer sustained fall lines, a more rugged mountainous environment and much more challenging, natural terrain. Killingtons ski terrain can’t hold a candle to Stowe or Smuggs and combining the two? Fuhgettaboutit.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

I stand by that statement. It “skis” bigger with longer sustained fall lines, a more rugged mountainous environment and much more challenging, natural terrain. Killingtons ski terrain can’t hold a candle to Stowe or Smuggs and combining the two? Fuhgettaboutit.

agreed, again

 

[KustyTheKlown]

I stand by that statement. It “skis” bigger with longer sustained fall lines, a more rugged mountainous environment and much more challenging, natural terrain. Killingtons ski terrain can’t hold a candle to Stowe or Smuggs and combining the two? Fuhgettaboutit.

smuggs may have the best terrain in vermont for challenge. the woods are endless. madonna liftline is iconic.

 

[kingslug]

Think I'll pay them a visit this season...been a while..

 

[x10003q]

They are still usable currently if you want. There's a fair bit of CC skiing though, especially coming back to Stowe. Just need passes to both mountains. They used to groom them about once a month. They stopped grooming when a groomer broke through the ice on Sterling Pond.

I think the idea of a temporary carpet or handle tow makes the most sense. I never understood the gondola idea unless they had it go all the way down to each base and not just the transfer spot between areas. It's probably only a quarter mile between the top of Spruce and Sterling

The gondola would keep the people off the land and less likely to make new trails and "ruin the pristine wilderness (sarcasm)" that has been skied/groomed/hiked for decades. It was to be 2600 feet in length.

 

[kendo]

As you saw I posted that this was an attempt at an exit plan for the owner of Smuggs. Get Vail to buy him out so he could cash out.

from the article:

“What we have not done any reasonable amount of work on is to develop a clear understanding of the economic impact that this project might have on our region and potentially on the state,” Stritlzer said. “That’s going to be the focus for the months to come, is developing a clear understanding of the economic impact. We think there is a story on the value of this project to the economy, particularly the regional economy. That may then become the basis for us deciding that we want to try to move forward.”


Bill - what have you been doing for 6yrs??? No independent Economic Impact numbers in hand to: (a) immediately counter the inevitable Eco-opposition and make your proposal more palatable when this goes public, or (b) revalue your property for a private sale - if served by a connector Gondola??

I think Bill was hoping for a quick and easy sale (max profit) with this project quietly in the works. Now he's probably looking at a tougher sale (min profit) ... meaning, he ain't selling soon and he ain't investing in anything more costly than duct tape and paint, for what's already in place.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Is it possible to have a snowcat/snow coach connector through the notch? How long would that take one way?

It could be done, but it would be a pretty long round-trip in total minutes, plus snowcats dont hold enough people to make that a realistic option. Sure would be a beautiful ride though.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Or they can try and make the connector trails skiable again each way. Although I'm not sure that is possible. I've never been on either trail.

You can ski it, but the problem with that is it would only be for people in decent shape (this is America in 2023 after all) and only for advanced-intermediates with decent staking & herringbone skills and up, so not really a solution since this obviously needs to be for everyone.

 

[SteezyRob]

im confused, it seems like some of you would be fine with this? wouldn't this absolutely ruin smuggs. plus, who wants to waste time traveling back and forth? even at sugarbush i try to stick to one side at a time, and that's just a 15 min chair ride. if you want to go to stowe, and who wants to spend time at spruce... you'd have to take the gondi, ski down, get to the other side, and then ride another lift up (and presumably back?)

 

[skiur]

im confused, it seems like some of you would be fine with this? wouldn't this absolutely ruin smuggs. plus, who wants to waste time traveling back and forth? even at sugarbush i try to stick to one side at a time, and that's just a 15 min chair ride. if you want to go to stowe, and who wants to spend time at spruce... you'd have to take the gondi, ski down, get to the other side, and then ride another lift up (and presumably back?)

I would.

 

[x10003q]

It could be done, but it would be a pretty long round-trip in total minutes, plus snowcats dont hold enough people to make that a realistic option. Sure would be a beautiful ride though.

Most sno-cats can travel at 10 mph (or more). At 10 mph the trip would be a little over 8 minutes (2600 ft). If you add a few minutes to unload and unload, you might be looking at a one way trip of roughly 15 minutes. At the various cat skiing areas, the capacity is between 12 and 20 people. This set-up would not move many people per hour.