LiftBlog Reports that Smuggs and Stowe are Exploring an Interconnect Gondola

[deadheadskier]

From my perspective: My family skied Smugglers almost exclusively from the late 60's through the mid 70's. My father had a co worker who recommended it over Stowe ( due to "Liftlines"). It was a 7 hour slog from our home in NNJ so my parents rented a condo for the season in the village which was at that time newly being built. Went every other weekend and school vacations. Was a walkable to the Morse Mountain double chair (they only had 3 at that time, one for each mountain) and personally got lucky with an instructor that really got my game going over one Christmas Vacation. Great memories with a couple of really fantastic winters like being basically snowed "in" with 64" in 3 days Dec 69. (mountain was open). Remember skiing the connection across Sterling Pond to Spruce Peak. Was our home mountain for many years.

Fast forward many years, Lots of travel checking out other areas in New England and out west, but we still did put in the occasional visit to Smugglers and watched what changed and what didn't change. While they put in some lifts, they were somewhat slow to upgrade snow making (which probably pushed me away a couple of lean snow years in the late 70's, early 80's) and compared to some other areas it's just not that convenient plus out side of the village there really wasn't too much good lodging outside of Burlington almost an hour away. I do remember one really fun weekend at a motel called the Highlander (I think) on 108 but that was when I was single and thus had lower standards.

My last visit to Smuggs was probably was probably back in the mid 2000's I frankly just found it down right old in so many ways. The speed doesn't bother me too much but the lifts are old and not particularly comfortable. Madonna 1 is 15 minutes plus of that. There really is no good base lodge area down at the village where some of the parking is, and the mid Madonna Lodge was obsolete in the 80's and I don't think much has been done to it since. As I've gotten older skiing has become more to me then just the sport itself and nicer facilities (say a decent bar and or a nice summit lodge for warm up and dining) have become more vital to a good experience especially with my wife who I like to pamper a bit. These are some of the things Smugglers was not really providing on my last visit there. It maybe one thing for the person who is local to the area but its another to people like me, a "weekend warrior" (I would say one of the biggest main stays in NE skiing) who spends good bucks for a couple of days skiing.

Smuggs will always have a place in heart because of my history there. They are never going to be able to put a high speed lift up to the summit of Madonna due to the winds. I really think they should think about doing something like I said in a post above with shortening the Madonna I lift and putting a more modern (high speed )lift up the side replacing Madonna 2 (plus one on Sterling and Morse too). Certainly the terrain there is top notch they just need to up grade the access to it and other facilities around it.

The great thing about skiing is there are still experiences available for everyone. Not everyone has to have or even wants the vacation amenities you describe.

Some people prefer minimalist experiences that don't break the bank. That's what Smuggs mostly offers. Though their lodging can be pretty pricey still for what it is.

Smuggs fans do not want it to become Stowe and if you added all of those high-speed lifts, then you also have to add in the fancy lodging and higher brow F&B options to support it. So, it basically becomes Stowe.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

The Gondola Game: Smugglers’ Notch Resort owner responds to dustup over clandestine lift project

On June 1st, a secret, six-year-old plan to build a gondola between Vermont's Smugglers' Notch and Stowe Mountain resorts was uncovered by a local paper. While Smugglers' Notch Resort president Bill Stritzler believes connecting the two resorts would benefit all user groups, locals have their...

backcountrymagazine.com

^what they said

 

[BenedictGomez]

Whoever could have possibly seen this coming?

Goodbye Smuggs, you'll always have a special place in my heart. Perhaps it's fitting I'm leaving.

 

[BenedictGomez]

There's a trail from Spruce to Smuggs. Basically a groomer cat track. Coming back you skate over the pond and down to the Smugglers trail on Spruce.

The arrangement used to be you could switch sides for just one run. If you had a lift ticket, they'd punch a hole in it. If you were a pass holder, you went to the lodge for a free one up ticket.

When I lived in town, we'd go over all the time, typically skiing the Birthday Bowls. We would plead ignorance and ride Madonna or do another lap before a lifty would question us. It was a rarity back then for Smuggs to check passes, so we used to get in several laps on the Smuggs side before heading back to Spruce.

Snuffy's is the name of that trail. You could (if you were honorable) purposefully buy a $10 one run lift ticket to do it. In fact, little known fact, it was actually in the Stowe computer system, but it was never (EVER) advertised. Probably the only people who know this are former Stowe lift ticket sales & ski school peeps from back in the day. IMO it was more a way to financially punish peeps who skied over from Smuggs (charging for a full ticket would have been draconian) than actually offering something cool given we literally never advertised it.

 

[BenedictGomez]

When I lived in town, we'd go over all the time, typically skiing the Birthday Bowls. We would plead ignorance and ride Madonna or do another lap before a lifty would question us. It was a rarity back then for Smuggs to check passes, so we used to get in several laps on the Smuggs side before heading back to Spruce.

OMG this is so factual. It was also a rarity for Smuggs to check ID for College Passes, so while I worked at Stowe as a fresh college graduate I used my (expired) college ID for a Smuggs College Season Pass, which IIRC was only like $265. So I could ski back and forth over the mountain from Stowe to Smuggs and vice-versa at will since I have season passes at both. 100% baller, lol.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Some Vail acquisitions make sense and are a good fit for their portfolio, like Mt Snow or Okemo. Those regular skiers likely delight in cheaper passes and access to other hills.

The kind of skier that makes a place like Smuggs their home mountain....those guys are mostly going to fucking haaaaaate this idea.

This is true, but it doesnt matter. For every Smuggs die-hard (I know a few) they lose, the gigantic marketing advantage this will confer will easily replace them with, and more.

It's the same reason OneWasatch will eventually happen, either while I'm old enough to ski, or my grandkids are.

 

[BenedictGomez]

have you ever skied the bowls? or smuggs? based on that post i assume the answer is no.

its not about it being a pristine wilderness. its not a pristine wilderness. its heavily trafficked because its access to one of the best sidecountry zones in all of new england. massive clearing and a lift running thru there would totally suck and traffic in the smuggs side bowls would increase with a bunch of jerrys and joeys who get eyes on the terrain for the first time in their lives.

This is a good point I hadnt thought of. To get in the bowls now you have to have a least some semblance of ability. Widening that out & making it easy to access would probably increase the traffic........... I dont know....... 50x fold?

 

[BenedictGomez]

that would be the worst possible outcome so its a damn good thing its physically impossible. if you plowed 108 and had cars going between stowe and smuggs, buybye notch backcountry.

Not so fast. With Vail's **** *** money I absolutely think they'll make an attempt at this. The environmentalists predictably will (IMO) shut it down, and quickly, but if Vail buys Smuggs I'd almost guarantee they'll take a Hail Mary pass at a 365 day notch.

 

[kendo]

Not so fast. With Vail's **** *** money I absolutely think they'll make an attempt at this. The environmentalists predictably will (IMO) shut it down, and quickly, but if Vail buys Smuggs I'd almost guarantee they'll take a Hail Mary pass at a 365 day notch.

No way cars with Jerry's that are challenged on Harlow Hill are ever going to make it thru the notch.

Would have to be limited van access and dedicate plows. Not likely, regardless of the cost.

Vail would promote the improved emergency access and van served backcountry as an Epic guest experience!

 

[deadheadskier]

Whoever could have possibly seen this coming?

Goodbye Smuggs, you'll always have a special place in my heart. Perhaps it's fitting I'm leaving.

Finally making the move West? Where to?

 

[4aprice]

The great thing about skiing is there are still experiences available for everyone. Not everyone has to have or even wants the vacation amenities you describe.

Some people prefer minimalist experiences that don't break the bank. That's what Smuggs mostly offers. Though their lodging can be pretty pricey still for what it is.

Smuggs fans do not want it to become Stowe and if you added all of those high-speed lifts, then you also have to add in the fancy lodging and higher brow F&B options to support it. So, it basically becomes Stowe.

I don't disagree with anything you said DHS. I'm sure the Burlington area has grown quite a bit over the last several years and if Smuggs can survive in its present model then more power to them. I was responding to the poster questioning why the older lifts bother some people and that's a category I now fit in now. My New England skiing now consists of 2, maybe 3 weekends a year and as empty nesters I'll admit I do look for some "higher brow" stuff for those few days.

 

[RH29]

I don't disagree with anything you said DHS. I'm sure the Burlington area has grown quite a bit over the last several years and if Smuggs can survive in its present model then more power to them. I was responding to the poster questioning why the older lifts bother some people and that's a category I now fit in now. My New England skiing now consists of 2, maybe 3 weekends a year and as empty nesters I'll admit I do look for some "higher brow" stuff for those few days.

Burlington metro is growing (226k now vs 211k in 2010) but it's still tiny. There's plenty of new subdivisions going up in Williston and Colchester in particular. And the rest of VT is shrinking.

 

[Kingslug20]

I think people moving here..like us .want some conveniences that places like Burlington and Williston have. The one hour trip to a store is not very appealing after a while. We learned this at our place in Stowe.

 

[Smellytele]

There is a Walmart 1/2hr away from Stowe and there are a few grocery stores in the area as well isn’t there?

 

[ThatGuy]

There is a Walmart 1/2hr away from Stowe and there are a few grocery stores in the area as well isn’t there?

Theres a Shaws in Stowe and Walmart in Montpelier. Plus some other stores in the area. Not the same density and options as Burlington but its no wasteland either

 

[thetrailboss]

I think people moving here..like us .want some conveniences that places like Burlington and Williston have. The one hour trip to a store is not very appealing after a while. We learned this at our place in Stowe.

That’s the reality of living in a rural area.

 

[drjeff]

I think people moving here..like us .want some conveniences that places like Burlington and Williston have. The one hour trip to a store is not very appealing after a while. We learned this at our place in Stowe.

That's like my weekly Winter season trips to Mount Snow... I do probably 80% of my grocery shopping at the Big Y in Greenfield, MA about 50 min from my condo and then pick up a few odds and ends local to my condo for about 101 reasons

 

[BenedictGomez]

No way cars with Jerry's that are challenged on Harlow Hill are ever going to make it thru the notch.

Would have to be limited van access and dedicate plows. Not likely, regardless of the cost.

Vail would promote the improved emergency access and van served backcountry as an Epic guest experience!

Yes, dedicated plows, that's exactly what I'm thinking.

It honestly wouldn't be that hard if you simply put in an every-other-day effort. State of Vermont gives up in November due to cost. Vail doesn't GAF about "cost" when revenue > cost.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Finally making the move West? Where to?

Wasatch Back.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Burlington metro is growing (226k now vs 211k in 2010) but it's still tiny. There's plenty of new subdivisions going up in Williston and Colchester in particular. And the rest of VT is shrinking.

Fun fact - there are more empty homes in Vermont than in any other state in all of America.

About 20% of all homes in Vermont currently sit empty.