Like we've been saying about Gore....

[cdskier]

Lot's of great summer activities too great hiking and fishing.

Someone said there are no amenities but like you I prefer to be away from that.

And Lake George village is only 20-25 minutes away tons of amenities there.

I'd be extremely impressed if you can make it from Gore to Lake George village in 20-25 minutes. Closer to 35 is more accurate.

But anyway, there's a happy medium between what Gore/North Creek is like today vs somewhere like Stratton. That's what they need. I would never want them to be as built up Stratton or K, however something more like the Mad River Valley area would be ideal.

 

[JimG.]

I'd be extremely impressed if you can make it from Gore to Lake George village in 20-25 minutes. Closer to 35 is more accurate.

But anyway, there's a happy medium between what Gore/North Creek is like today vs somewhere like Stratton. That's what they need. I would never want them to be as built up Stratton or K, however something more like the Mad River Valley area would be ideal.

So let's average to 30 minutes. That's perfect in my view.

 

[AdironRider]

So let's average to 30 minutes. That's perfect in my view.

Lake George though is a ghost town once summer ends. Don't a lot of places close for winter?

 

[BenedictGomez]

there's a happy medium between what Gore/North Creek is like today vs somewhere like Stratton. That's what they need. I would never want them to be as built up Stratton or K, however something more like the Mad River Valley area would be ideal.

Yup. Anyone know if Gore operates in the black?

 

[cdskier]

Yup. Anyone know if Gore operates in the black?

Just read ORDA's reports...that will make it clear as mud!

 

[deadheadskier]

If I were a Gore skier, I'd like the fact that there's not much nearby. I'd be content with commuting from a place in Lake George. Hell if you can swing a lake house, even better.

Not having development at the mountain makes for such a better ski experience. The lack of slopeside or even nearby development is the exact reason why Wildcat and Cannon have vaulted to the top of my list as the best places to ski in New England on weekends. I've grown so used to it, I cringe at the thought of skiing at "resorts" now.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Harvey]

If I were a Gore skier, I'd like the fact that there's not much nearby. I'd be content with commuting from a place in Lake George. Hell if you can swing a lake house, even better.

Not having development at the mountain makes for such a better ski experience. The lack of slopeside or even nearby development is the exact reason why Wildcat and Cannon have vaulted to the top of my list as the best places to ski in New England on weekends. I've grown so used to it, I cringe at the thought of skiing at "resorts" now.

Agree with all of this.

I can see the summit of Gore from our place. It's maybe 4 miles as the crow flies, about 10 miles by car, including the access road. I love the drive along the river.

I love the fact that there is no slopeside at Gore. When you stand atop Gore, or Bear, or Burnt, or Little Gore... all you see is wilderness.

As far as the continuum goes, if Gore is a 1 and Stratton is a 10, the middle ground I choose is 1.

The thing about Gore is that, like any mountain, the people who ski there regularly gravitate towards that experience. We love limitless trees, we love 500 acres, we love 14 (?) pods, hell we even like our flat spots. We have a huge tele community and the flats are a breeze.

Gore is awesome, if you like that kind of thing. It's clearly not for everybody, if it was, it would be crowded. Out side of my obsession with getting in line early for first chair, I haven't waited ten minutes in a lift line at Gore in over ten years. And I'm basically a weekend and holiday skier.

 

[cdskier]

Agree with all of this.

I can see the summit of Gore from our place. It's maybe 4 miles as the crow flies, about 10 miles by car, including the access road. I love the drive along the river.

I love the fact that there is no slopeside at Gore. When you stand atop Gore, or Bear, or Burnt, or Little Gore... all you see is wilderness.

As far as the continuum goes, if Gore is a 1 and Stratton is a 10, the middle ground I choose is 1.

The thing about Gore is that, like any mountain, the people who ski there regularly gravitate towards that experience. We love limitless trees, we love 500 acres, we love 14 (?) pods, hell we even like our flat spots. We have a huge tele community and the flats are a breeze.

Gore is awesome, if you like that kind of thing. It's clearly not for everybody, if it was, it would be crowded. Out side of my obsession with getting in line early for first chair, I haven't waited ten minutes in a lift line at Gore in over ten years. And I'm basically a weekend and holiday skier.

And this is exactly why BG’s question is so relevant. Would gore be able to survive using this model as a private resort that wasn’t subsidized by the state of NY? I have serious doubts...

Don’t get me wrong, I love gore, but I have serious questions about its viability if it wasn’t state own/run.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[BenedictGomez]

Just read ORDA's reports...that will make it clear as mud!

Some years ago I tried to do as deep a dive on that as I could (I posted it here), and it was very hard. Not because I dont have the knowledge, but because it's obvious State of New York intentionally makes it very hard to figure out what's going on.

As best I can remember (as I said it's been some years), I figured Whiteface was profitable, but Gore & Belleayre lose money. ORDA's really a trainwreck though, that's for sure.

 

[mbedle]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Gore potentially going to have a massive slope side development (Ski Bowl Village) adjacent to the north creek area?

 

[St. Jerry]

Yea, no way Gore is profitable. (and I do resort profitability analysis for a living). Tax payers subsidize those relatively cheap walk-up lift ticket prices. But then again I think price accessibility for all (most) is part of the reason why NYS owns the resort; for the benefit of its citizens.

 

[Harvey]

And this is exactly why BG’s question is so relevant. Would gore be able to survive using this model as a private resort that wasn’t subsidized by the state of NY? I have serious doubts...

Don’t get me wrong, I love gore, but I have serious questions about its viability if it wasn’t state own/run.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

If the only thing that changed was no public money Gore would certainly struggle. While Gore is probably "profitable" at times, what isn't included in that analysis is the infrastructure improvements which aren't financed, but granted by NY. Burnt Ridge Quad, Adk Express, Northwoods Gondola for starters << that's probably 20M+ right there that is not figured in the numbers.

But if Gore was private there would likely be slopeside condos to help finance some of that.

FWIW the Ski Bowl development is on private land that happens to be adjacent to town land that has a lift pod. That pod is connected to Gore a certain times. There are no accommodations on Gore (or Johnsburg) land. If and when Gore has the capacity to keep that low elevation terrain open all season then the Ski Bowl development could potentially take off. The market for slopeside condos that are accessible 30 days a year isn't really there. Apparently.

 

[x10003q]

Yea, no way Gore is profitable. (and I do resort profitability analysis for a living). Tax payers subsidize those relatively cheap walk-up lift ticket prices. But then again I think price accessibility for all (most) is part of the reason why NYS owns the resort; for the benefit of its citizens.

Gore's season pass pricing structure has not been that much cheaper than SVT for years and sometimes it costs more. Recently, in this cheap season pass era, Gore's window day pass has been much less expensive than SVT. This was true before 2000. It is impossible to tell if Gore is profitable due to the 'non-profit' nature of ORDA's accounting. It does seem to operate cash flow positive without accounting for adding/replacing lifts/lodging/snowmaking.

The fact is that even after 20 years of huge NYS funded expansion of terrain, lifts, snowmaking and day lodges, Gore still floats around 215k visits/season. It has been in this range since 2000. Gore could easily handle another 50k visits and nobody would notice and NYS would get a better return on its investment. This should be a huge embarrassment to ORDA and NYS and somebody should be held accountable, but ORDA seems fine with this level of usage. ORDA does not want any competition with Lake Placid to fill beds.

Gore remains a large, enjoyable, empty ski area that has easy access to the highway. It is the place to go to avoid crowds on weekends and holidays.

 

[mikec142]

The lack of crowds and lack of amenities are directly correlated.

If Gore was "state of the art" like say Stratton, it would be more crowded.

I'm committed to Gore (own land in the area) in part because of how quiet it is, and the hundreds of thousands of acres of wilderness in the area, not in spite of it.

I'm in complete agreement about the abundant wilderness and lack of crowds. I'm a big fan of Gore for these reasons. My issue is the entire area (we spend a lot of time at a friends house in Warrensburg) lacks restaurants, lodging, food stores, movie theaters, etc. etc.

When we visit our friends, we bring the vast majority of our food and drink with us and spend time at the house cooking and enjoying a book or board game. And I love every minute of this. But it would be great to be able to go out and enjoy a decent meal every once in a while.

If I weren't staying at a friends place, I'd most likely go to Northern VT.

 

[bigbog]

..........When we visit our friends, we bring the vast majority of our food and drink with us and spend time at the house cooking and enjoying a book or board game. And I love every minute of this. But it would be great to be able to go out and enjoy a decent meal every once in a while.

If I weren't staying at a friends place, I'd most likely go to Northern VT.

Definitely lodging with small refrig, sink/table for a healthy meal or ten with a fresh food market, WiFi and maybe a few restaurants(but not required..some family run palaces = possibilities of family brawls @night resembling(ie Star Trek) Landrue's 6pm Festival) make the deal.....along with a cell tower somewhere.

 

[abc]

What I will say is that Gore's terrain compares very favorably to any of the Southern VT hills at a cheaper price.

Does it receive the same snow as S VT?

The few times I was there, condition were so-so. Given it's not the crowd skiing the snow off, I'd be curious about the snow fall comparison.

Whiteface is know as Iceface for that reason. Not sure if it's the same situation with Gore.

 

[Harvey]

Gore gets somewhere around 50-100 inches less snow that SoVT depending on what you consider to be SoVT. That nickname for Whiteface is not about snowfall, but wind. Snowfall at Whiteface is generally on par with SoVT, again depending how you define SoVT.

https://nyskiblog.com/directory/weather-data/gore-mountain-snow-totals/annual-average/

 

[Harvey]

I'm in complete agreement about the abundant wilderness and lack of crowds. I'm a big fan of Gore for these reasons. My issue is the entire area (we spend a lot of time at a friends house in Warrensburg) lacks restaurants, lodging, food stores, movie theaters, etc. etc.

These are the same issue. It's a bit like saying "so and so is a such a nice person, but I wish he/she would be a more aggressive leader."

The lack of amenities are directly related to the amount of preserved land. It's harder for businesses to thrive.

 

[abc]

The lack of amenities are directly related to the amount of preserved land. It's harder for businesses to thrive.

Amenity can either be provided by the mountain ("resort"). Or developed organically, away from the mountain.

Gore is too far as a day trip for the downstate population. The lack of "amenity" means they can't or won't stay overnight. Instead they go all the way to WF -- more amenity. Or SVT which has with better snow, comparable terrain and similar in driving time(also more amenity)

The lack of the latter is directly related to the lack of patrons.

 

[mikec142]

Gore gets somewhere around 50-100 inches less snow that SoVT depending on what you consider to be SoVT. That nickname for Whiteface is not about snowfall, but wind. Snowfall at Whiteface is generally on par with SoVT, again depending how you define SoVT.

https://nyskiblog.com/directory/weather-data/gore-mountain-snow-totals/annual-average/

Thanks for this info.

FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills). From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.

The interesting thing about Gore and Whiteface is they seem to exist in their own little micro-climate. When it's cold, it seems to be a few degrees colder at Gore/Whiteface than it is at the mountains in VT. I could be totally making this up, but that's the way it feels to me.