Like we've been saying about Gore....

[machski]

Thanks for this info.

FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills). From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.

The interesting thing about Gore and Whiteface is they seem to exist in their own little micro-climate. When it's cold, it seems to be a few degrees colder at Gore/Whiteface than it is at the mountains in VT. I could be totally making this up, but that's the way it feels to me.

Probably just you, especially if you can actually tell the difference between just a few degrees.

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[cdskier]

FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills). From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.

I'd agree with this. They have some great terrain. Perhaps I lucked out, but conditions were always pretty good as well whenever I was there (certainly at least on par with what I experienced in SoVT, if not better).

 

[Harvey]

Amenity can either be provided by the mountain ("resort"). Or developed organically, away from the mountain.

Gore is too far as a day trip for the downstate population. The lack of "amenity" means they can't or won't stay overnight. Instead they go all the way to WF -- more amenity. Or SVT which has with better snow, comparable terrain and similar in driving time(also more amenity)

The lack of the latter is directly related to the lack of patrons.

While Gore has had more infrastructure (lifts) in the last decade or two, Whiteface (or more accurately Lake Placid) has had more all around investment for many decades before that. Also, the views from Lake Placid and the high peaks attract more visitors year round.

 

[Harvey]

I'd agree with this. They have some great terrain. Perhaps I lucked out, but conditions were always pretty good as well whenever I was there (certainly at least on par with what I experienced in SoVT, if not better).

I would define it that way too. Some people look at Northern and So VT, and some add in Central. I'd call Killington Central VT, but if I had to choose between north and south, I'd probably put it south.

Killington 250 inches
Mount Snow 200 inches
Gore 150 inches in a good year, more like 125 on average over the last 10.

FWIW Gore's trees have been kept pretty clean historically and have been skiable with about 40 inches.

 

[abc]

Whiteface (or more accurately Lake Placid) has had more all around investment for many decades before that. Also, the views from Lake Placid and the high peaks attract more visitors year round.

Count me as one of those visitors to Lake Placid.

It’s a bit of chicken and egg problem. The southern ADK has quite a bit of hiking too. But again, the lack of amenities leaves visitors to the north (or stopped at Lake George).

 

[Harvey]

It’s a bit of chicken and egg problem. The southern ADK has quite a bit of hiking too. But again, the lack of amenities leaves visitors to the north (or stopped at Lake George).

One thing that keeps me out of the mainstream... I don't consider it a problem.

Most people would rather climb the high peaks than spend time in the south. The 46ers give lip service to spreading out usage in the park, and they wring their hands about overuse and degradation but they remain singularly focused on that small part of the park. ADK is the same way. To many "Adirondacks" is synonymous with Lake Placid and the High Peaks.

Every ski area doesn't have to strive to meet the same ideal.

 

[Scruffy]

One thing that keeps me out of the mainstream... I don't consider it a problem.

Most people would rather climb the high peaks than spend time in the south. The 46ers give lip service to spreading out usage in the park, and they wring their hands about overuse and degradation but they remain singularly focused on that small part of the park. ADK is the same way. To many "Adirondacks" is synonymous with Lake Placid and the High Peaks.

Every ski area doesn't have to strive to meet the same ideal.

Agree 100%.

 

[Scruffy]

Thanks for this info.

FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills). From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.

The interesting thing about Gore and Whiteface is they seem to exist in their own little micro-climate. When it's cold, it seems to be a few degrees colder at Gore/Whiteface than it is at the mountains in VT. I could be totally making this up, but that's the way it feels to me.

Probably just you, especially if you can actually tell the difference between just a few degrees.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app

No, it's not his imagination. North Creek and the surrounding area is a "cold spot". I've spent many a winter morning in the area where it was way < -0°F and 50 miles away was way above 0°F. It's one of the first places in NY to freeze in the autumn. Vermont is a sauna compared to North Creek, NY.

 

[JimG.]

Agree 100%.

+1 love flying under the radar

 

[Harvey]

We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be. Groomed and high speed mostly. He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.

I just don't get it. Gore has 105 trails on the map and 4 or 5 of them are old school. Why do those 5 trails have to be made to be like the 100 others? Does Vermont become a better place to ski if Magic strives to become Okemo? Should Plattekill be more like Windham?

Jim I think you said hi to me once at Plattekill? We should ski together.

 

[cdskier]

We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be. Groomed and high speed mostly. He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.

Ugh...Lower Steilhang is great as is. Love classic old school trails like that. No idea why anyone would advocate homogenizing trails and having less variety.

 

[deadheadskier]

We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be. Groomed and high speed mostly. He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.

I just don't get it. Gore has 105 trails on the map and 4 or 5 of them are old school. Why do those 5 trails have to be made to be like the 100 others? Does Vermont become a better place to ski if Magic strives to become Okemo? Should Plattekill be more like Windham?

Jim I think you said hi to me once at Plattekill? We should ski together.

What is his/her rationale for homogenizing that old school trail?

Aren't there plenty enough high speed groomers at Gore already?

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[BenedictGomez]

Gore's terrain is significantly better than any resort in southern Vermont.

 

[Harvey]

I can't answer your question DHS. It makes no sense to me. Anyone skied Empire at Whiteface? Another narrow gem, with no snowmaking.

Another opinion he expresses... you should never cut a trail if you can't put snowmaking in, in the same year. I don't get that either.

Here's another opinion of mine that maybe you more of you guys will disagree with.

IMO, Burnt Ridge is one of the most unique pods in the East. A high speed quad that serves one long liftline trail and 4 glades that are over a mile long each. It's the first place I head when the trees are in play. Because of one of Gore's "dreaded" traverses the pod is even more underutilized than the rest of the mountain. Somehow it's rad to climb and hike all day to ski three runs in Tuckerman, but if you have to skate 20 or 50 strokes to get to Burnt Ridge, the mountain sucks.

The conventional wisdom is that it is a waste of a high speed lift. The long term plan is to put another trail in that will eliminate or significantly disrupt two of those beautiful glades. I understand the pressure to do this, and I'll accept it when it happens, but I love it the way it is now. There is nothing better than getting a heads up from patrol, being in the right place at the right time and skiing continuous untracked for a mile. You don't even have to be first to do it.

Here's one time that happened. If it's not cool to link to our forum DHS, apologies, feel free to delete the link:

https://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Mountain-NY-2-2-15-Mid-Week-Pow-Magic-td4054066.html

 

[JimG.]

We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be. Groomed and high speed mostly. He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.

I just don't get it. Gore has 105 trails on the map and 4 or 5 of them are old school. Why do those 5 trails have to be made to be like the 100 others? Does Vermont become a better place to ski if Magic strives to become Okemo? Should Plattekill be more like Windham?

Jim I think you said hi to me once at Plattekill? We should ski together.

Next season for sure.

 

[cdskier]

I can't answer your question DHS. It makes no sense to me. Anyone skied Empire at Whiteface? Another narrow gem, with no snowmaking.

Another opinion he expresses... you should never cut a trail if you can't put snowmaking in, in the same year. I don't get that either.

Don't get that one either...

Not only do I think it is ok to not install snowmaking in the same year the trail is cut, I think in some cases it is ok to never have snowmaking installed on some trails!

Here's another opinion of mine that maybe you more of you guys will disagree with.

IMO, Burnt Ridge is one of the most unique pods in the East. A high speed quad that serves one long liftline trail and 4 glades that are over a mile long each. It's the first place I head when the trees are in play. Because of one of Gore's "dreaded" traverses the pod is even more underutilized than the rest of the mountain. Somehow it's rad to climb and hike all day to ski three runs in Tuckerman, but if you have to skate 20 or 50 strokes to get to Burnt Ridge, the mountain sucks.

The conventional wisdom is that it is a waste of a high speed lift. The long term plan is to put another trail in that will eliminate or significantly disrupt two of those beautiful glades. I understand the pressure to do this, and I'll accept it when it happens, but I love it the way it is now. There is nothing better than getting a heads up from patrol, being in the right place at the right time and skiing continuous untracked for a mile. You don't even have to be first to do it.

Actually I would agree with you. I never had the pleasure of skiing Burnt Ridge (Can't recall whether the last time I was at Gore it hadn't been finished yet or whether it just wasn't open that weekend). However that pod sounds pretty awesome. Some of the skiers at my home mountain have often fantasized about a pod very similar to that being created there, so you certainly won't see me disagreeing with you that it is NOT a waste of a lift.

 

[abc]

One thing that keeps me out of the mainstream... I don't consider it a problem.

Most people would rather climb the high peaks than spend time in the south. The 46ers give lip service to spreading out usage in the park, and they wring their hands about overuse and degradation but they remain singularly focused on that small part of the park. ADK is the same way. To many "Adirondacks" is synonymous with Lake Placid and the High Peaks.

Every ski area doesn't have to strive to meet the same ideal.

That’s one way of looking at it.

To believe people who don’t come to North Creek because they were too busy chasing big name peaks. When the real reason they don’t come is because they can’t find a room to sleep or a place that serves decent food.

One effective way to discourage tourism is not to provide service, ON PURPOSE.

That said, not every place needs tourist, especially places where the locals are sustaining the economy well.

 

[deadheadskier]

I can't answer your question DHS. It makes no sense to me. Anyone skied Empire at Whiteface? Another narrow gem, with no snowmaking.

Another opinion he expresses... you should never cut a trail if you can't put snowmaking in, in the same year. I don't get that either.

Here's another opinion of mine that maybe you more of you guys will disagree with.

IMO, Burnt Ridge is one of the most unique pods in the East. A high speed quad that serves one long liftline trail and 4 glades that are over a mile long each. It's the first place I head when the trees are in play. Because of one of Gore's "dreaded" traverses the pod is even more underutilized than the rest of the mountain. Somehow it's rad to climb and hike all day to ski three runs in Tuckerman, but if you have to skate 20 or 50 strokes to get to Burnt Ridge, the mountain sucks.

The conventional wisdom is that it is a waste of a high speed lift. The long term plan is to put another trail in that will eliminate or significantly disrupt two of those beautiful glades. I understand the pressure to do this, and I'll accept it when it happens, but I love it the way it is now. There is nothing better than getting a heads up from patrol, being in the right place at the right time and skiing continuous untracked for a mile. You don't even have to be first to do it.

Here's one time that happened. If it's not cool to link to our forum DHS, apologies, feel free to delete the link:

https://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Mountain-NY-2-2-15-Mid-Week-Pow-Magic-td4054066.html

No problem with the link.

Burnt Ridge sounds fantastic. I wouldn't want to see it changed either. Ironically, Sugarloaf skiers often speculate on putting a lift in on Burnt Mountain. If they were ever to do a lift, I'd want to see only what Gore has done with their Burnt; lift line trail only and the rest glades. Sugarloaf Burnt terrain requires a significant hike up to ski. I'd estimate at least an hour to get to the top, which I haven't done. If skied all the way down it can take about 30 minutes to hike back to the resort. That I have done. They added a fee based Cat skiing program to provide easier access. Sounds like they'll just stick to that and not add a lift.

I'm with cdskier. I like terrain that's cut and left natural only. That represents about 20 of the 48 trails at Wildcat. Some of those trails had snowmaking at one point, but they no longer use it. Most of the clientele prefers it that way. It can really limit options during natural snow droughts, but the payoff is much better skiing when it snows. If I get bored during drought periods, I simply head to Attitash for the day or sometimes I'll ski the morning at Wildcat and the afternoon at Attitash. Plenty of groomed snowmaking terrain over there. I'd argue too much in fact.

One of these years I'll make it over to Gore. Sounds like my kinda place. Tough slog from the NH Seacoast.

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[Smellytele]

Gore's terrain is significantly better than any resort in southern Vermont.

Better than Magic? I think not. I like Gore more than any other in So VT.

 

[Smellytele]

My favorite ski areas all have no on mountain lodging (Wildcat, Cannon, Mad River Glen, A-basin and Loveland) All have lodging within a half hour as does Gore. Is staying a little over a half hour away such a hassle? Better than driving from 3 hours away.