Like we've been saying about Gore....

[Harvey]

That’s one way of looking at it.

To believe people who don’t come to North Creek because they were too busy chasing big name peaks. When the real reason they don’t come is because they can’t find a room to sleep or a place that serves decent food.

One effective way to discourage tourism is not to provide service, ON PURPOSE.

That said, not every place needs tourist, especially places where the locals are sustaining the economy well.

I should be clear, this is another area where my opinion is not mainstream. Many or even maybe most agree that if "they" would build some beds that Gore would become more of a destination.

Who is they? I believe that if there was unserved demand the few options that are available would be full and they would be expanded or more competition would come in. There are some nice houses in town that could be rented too. They are to some extent, but not too capacity.

Gore is relatively easy to get to for a lot of people in the Hudson Valley, downstate NY and parts of NJ. Maybe not easy, but easier than Killington. (Magic is about the same drive time from my house, but I get there less because I have a place to stay at Gore.

But, as mentions much of VT gets more snow. 100 more inches at K is a big deal, 10 inches more per week for 10 weeks. And because SoVT has a lot of slopeside, it's "easier" to take a family, where everyone doesn't want to ski on the same schedule.

I don't think any of this is on purpose. ORDA and the locals all want more business.

 

[Harvey]

Better than Magic? I think not. I like Gore more than any other in So VT.

Magic is awesome. I've only skied in a few times, but I love the terrain, and there's a distinct lack of dynamite used. Gore's lowest elevation terrain (Old Gore aka The Ski Bowl) is like this to some extent.

I felt welcomed by people I didn't know too. I'm not exactly a ripper, but I do tend to ski with a lot of true experts. I know enough people at Gore so that I can find skiers who are willing to ski with me. Magic was like that, people wait for you to pop out of the trees, and I'm basically a stranger there.

 

[cdskier]

I don't think any of this is on purpose. ORDA and the locals all want more business.

I always heard a story that when Rt 28 was being built, the North Creek old timers specifically wanted it routed AROUND downtown instead of through it like originally planned. "We don't want tourists parking on our street and taking up spots for us locals."

Granted this was ages ago...but I still think it is a decent anecdote that shows why Gore is the way it is and has the reputation that it does for having nothing around it. And while it does have some lodging (which can be underutilized at times), it still has the perception from many people that there's nothing there at all. So it is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People think there's nothing there so they stay away which deflates demand. Even if they did build more, it would either take a long time or a very strong marketing campaign to change the existing perception and increase the demand.

 

[cdskier]

My favorite ski areas all have no on mountain lodging (Wildcat, Cannon, Mad River Glen, A-basin and Loveland) All have lodging within a half hour as does Gore. Is staying a little over a half hour away such a hassle? Better than driving from 3 hours away.

I can't speak for the others, but MRG isn't a good comparison in my mind. There's quite a bit of lodging within just a few minutes of MRG (plus tons of restaurant choices unlike Gore). I actually think if Gore was like the MRV area, it would be ideal.

 

[Harvey]

No problem with the link.

Burnt Ridge sounds fantastic. I wouldn't want to see it changed either. Ironically, Sugarloaf skiers often speculate on putting a lift in on Burnt Mountain. If they were ever to do a lift, I'd want to see only what Gore has done with their Burnt; lift line trail only and the rest glades. Sugarloaf Burnt terrain requires a significant hike up to ski. I'd estimate at least an hour to get to the top, which I haven't done. If skied all the way down it can take about 30 minutes to hike back to the resort. That I have done. They added a fee based Cat skiing program to provide easier access. Sounds like they'll just stick to that and not add a lift.

I'm with cdskier. I like terrain that's cut and left natural only. That represents about 20 of the 48 trails at Wildcat. Some of those trails had snowmaking at one point, but they no longer use it. Most of the clientele prefers it that way. It can really limit options during natural snow droughts, but the payoff is much better skiing when it snows. If I get bored during drought periods, I simply head to Attitash for the day or sometimes I'll ski the morning at Wildcat and the afternoon at Attitash. Plenty of groomed snowmaking terrain over there. I'd argue too much in fact.

One of these years I'll make it over to Gore. Sounds like my kinda place. Tough slog from the NH Seacoast.

Burnt at Gore will change and that trail will get put in. Many (not me but many) dislike the traverses between Gore's 4 peaks. By adding that new trail it will make it easier for non-tree skiers to go from Burnt Ridge to Little Gore. I could care less about traversing. I'm a nordic skier on free heels and I like it. How many of those people whining about the traverses have gym memberships? The area has deep nordic roots and there are a ton of teleskiers on the hill. The traverse to Burnt or where ever is part of our day. My buddy Duck, one time on a lark went from the summit of Gore all the way to bottom of little Gore, in something like 15 minutes, basically hitting almost every traverse. Granted he was going as fast as he could, but really it is not that bad. IMO.

It is tough to get across from NH. Riverc0il came to ski with me once, we did one day at Gore and one at Whiteface. Conditions were prime and we got into the slides so I think it was worth it for him.

I've been to NH once. Conditions were thin, but I loved Wildcat and Mittersill the most.

 

[Smellytele]

I can't speak for the others, but MRG isn't a good comparison in my mind. There's quite a bit of lodging within just a few minutes of MRG (plus tons of restaurant choices unlike Gore). I actually think if Gore was like the MRV area, it would be ideal.

Okay but the others are similar. Wildcat has North Conway, Cannon - Lincoln, Gore - Lake George.

 

[Harvey]

I always heard a story that when Rt 28 was being built, the North Creek old timers specifically wanted it routed AROUND downtown instead of through it like originally planned. "We don't want tourists parking on our street and taking up spots for us locals."

Granted this was ages ago...but I still think it is a decent anecdote that shows why Gore is the way it is and has the reputation that it does for having nothing around it. And while it does have some lodging (which can be underutilized at times), it still has the perception from many people that there's nothing there at all. So it is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People think there's nothing there so they stay away which deflates demand. Even if they did build more, it would either take a long time or a very strong marketing campaign to change the existing perception and increase the demand.

The bypass is a factor and also the fact that the mountain is closer to the skiers than the town are both factors. Even without the bypass 95% of skiers can get to Gore without passing through town. That certainly hurts business.

 

[Harvey]

Don't get that one either...

Not only do I think it is ok to not install snowmaking in the same year the trail is cut, I think in some cases it is ok to never have snowmaking installed on some trails!

I agree.

One of the kids at Gore came out with something a few years ago that has stuck:

"Daddy thin cover is secret code for good snow!"

 

[BenedictGomez]

One of these years I'll make it over to Gore. Sounds like my kinda place.

I think you'd like Plattekill even more.

Better than Magic? I think not.

Yes, easily better than Magic.

I do realize there are people on this board that you're not even allowed to say Zermatt or Whistler Blackcomb are better than Magic, but taken in toto, yes, Gore is better than Magic. And I love Magic.

 

[cdskier]

I agree.

One of the kids at Gore came out with something a few years ago that has stuck:

"Daddy thin cover is secret code for good snow!"

I'll take thin cover natural snow over man-made hard pack/ice any day!

 

[abc]

My favorite ski areas all have no on mountain lodging (Wildcat, Cannon, Mad River Glen, A-basin and Loveland) All have lodging within a half hour as does Gore. Is staying a little over a half hour away such a hassle? Better than driving from 3 hours away.

MRG is in the middle of a cluster of mountains (Stowe, Sugarbush, Bolton)
Wildcat's base, North Conway is also a base for a bunch of other mountains.
A-basin & Loveland the same.

They "feed off" families who may go to those other mountains mixing and matching. Or families who grow into advance level in search of terrain.

Cannon a little less so. But still, one can get to it from Lincoln, "paired" with Loon.

What other mountains can you mix and match with Gore?

The lack on on-mountain lodging can be offset by abundant lodging in neighboring mountains and towns. Gore doesn't have that to take advantage of. I've done the stay-in-Lake-George way. But while LG is buzzing in the summer and has tons of lodging, many of them close entirely in the winter. So the lodging choice is actually not that great.

So far, the only way I found it works is by hitting Gore on my way north (to either WF or Killington/Pico), without stopping in the area for the night.

 

[x10003q]

That’s one way of looking at it.

To believe people who don’t come to North Creek because they were too busy chasing big name peaks. When the real reason they don’t come is because they can’t find a room to sleep or a place that serves decent food.

One effective way to discourage tourism is not to provide service, ON PURPOSE.

That said, not every place needs tourist, especially places where the locals are sustaining the economy well.

The locals in North Creek are not sustaining the economy. That was the purpose of the Gore expansion over the last 20 years - to financially help North Creek and the surrounding area.

Gore is still seeing about the same number of visitors/ski season it saw when it was half the size it is now. ORDA refuses to advertise Gore in the NYC metro area while it does advertise Lake Placid/WF. Gore is less than 3.5 hours from much of the northern and western suburbs of NYC. I get to Gore from north NJ in 3:10. Gore has almost 50% more terrain than WF, better terrain for green and blue skiers, warmer, less windy weather than WF, and is much closer and easier to get to vs WF. Gore also has virtually unlimited water from the Hudson River. Yet, ORDA does not promote Gore. They do not want to lose Lake Placid visits to North Creek.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think you are misremembering how close Cannon is to Lincoln. It's less than 15 minutes.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[JimG.]

Burnt at Gore will change and that trail will get put in. Many (not me but many) dislike the traverses between Gore's 4 peaks. By adding that new trail it will make it easier for non-tree skiers to go from Burnt Ridge to Little Gore. I could care less about traversing. I'm a nordic skier on free heels and I like it. How many of those people whining about the traverses have gym memberships? The area has deep nordic roots and there are a ton of teleskiers on the hill. The traverse to Burnt or where ever is part of our day. My buddy Duck, one time on a lark went from the summit of Gore all the way to bottom of little Gore, in something like 15 minutes, basically hitting almost every traverse. Granted he was going as fast as he could, but really it is not that bad. IMO.

It is tough to get across from NH. Riverc0il came to ski with me once, we did one day at Gore and one at Whiteface. Conditions were prime and we got into the slides so I think it was worth it for him.

I've been to NH once. Conditions were thin, but I loved Wildcat and Mittersill the most.

I like the traverses for the very reason most hate them...you have to make an effort to access the good stuff. Same reason I'll sit on that slow ass North Creek triple to ski 46er.

Same reason I'll bushwack 2-3 miles downstream on a trout stream before I start casting.

That proposed trail at Burnt will be a scar in those great tree areas.

 

[Killingtime]

MRG is in the middle of a cluster of mountains (Stowe, Sugarbush, Bolton)
Wildcat's base, North Conway is also a base for a bunch of other mountains.
A-basin & Loveland the same.

The lack on on-mountain lodging can be offset by abundant lodging in neighboring mountains and towns. Gore doesn't have that to take advantage of. I've done the stay-in-Lake-George way. But while LG is buzzing in the summer and has tons of lodging, many of them close entirely in the winter. So the lodging choice is actually not that great.

So far, the only way I found it works is by hitting Gore on my way north (to either WF or Killington/Pico), without stopping in the area for the night.

Yeah, I got lucky and booked a nice place in North Creek, but did it about six months in advance. The town itself is really quiet with not too much to do. Still, I managed to find a great restaurant right in town. North Creek didn't really feel like a ski town so I see your point.

 

[BenedictGomez]

So far, the only way I found it works is by hitting Gore on my way north (to either WF or Killington/Pico), without stopping in the area for the night.

This is what I do virtually every time I ski Gore. I ski Gore on a Friday or a Saturday, drive to Lake Placid for lodging, and then ski Whiteface the next day.

ORDA does not promote Gore. They do not want to lose Lake Placid visits to North Creek.

You really think it's this calculating? I agree with your analysis 100%, but I always just assumed it was typical government incompetence. ORDA is a trainwreck. Were Whiteface privately owned, it could be one of the most successful ski areas in the east.

 

[x10003q]

I like the traverses for the very reason most hate them...you have to make an effort to access the good stuff. Same reason I'll sit on that slow ass North Creek triple to ski 46er.

Same reason I'll bushwack 2-3 miles downstream on a trout stream before I start casting.

That proposed trail at Burnt will be a scar in those great tree areas.

NYS public dollars funded Burnt Ridge HSQ (6000ft long/1432vert) in 2008 and it should serve more than a small subset of skiers. Adding another trail or 2 on Burnt Ridge would allow more people to use a wonderful lift. Gore is not a private area where ownership can decide to make a 'glade' pod like Burnt Ridge.

The real issue with Burnt Ridge is the low elevation. Without snowmaking, this area only opens well into the season. Having the lift serve basically 2 trails, Echo, a race trail and Sagamore (besides the connectors) is absurd. The terrain would easily support at least another low blue trail so more people can enjoy the pod.

Harvey linked to a trip report from 2015.
http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Mountain-NY-2-2-15-Mid-Week-Pow-Magic-tp4054066.html
If you read the trip report from Feb 2, 2015, you will notice that this was Harvey's first trip of the season into the Burnt Ridge Glades. How is it a Gore regular like Harvey has not visited Burnt Ridge glades until Feb 2nd? The answer of course is that, during many years, there is not enough natural snow for the glades to open. Gore also seems to have Burnt Ridge as a low priority snowmaking area. That means that for much of the early to mid season, there is an expensive HSQ not being used.
Brilliant!!

There are plans to add a trail or 2 and the plans existed before the HSQ was installed in 2008. Here we are, 11 years later and the trails still don't exist. This is just par for the course at Gore.

 

[BenedictGomez]

For another instance of completely inefficient snowmaking & incompetently poor planning leading to a big waste of resources & a barely usable area, SEE: Lookout Mountain @ Whiteface (also New York State operated).

 

[abc]

This is what I do virtually every time I ski Gore. I ski Gore on a Friday or a Saturday, drive to Lake Placid for lodging, and then ski Whiteface the next day.

You really think it's this calculating? I agree with your analysis 100%, but I always just assumed it was typical government incompetence. ORDA is a trainwreck. Were Whiteface privately owned, it could be one of the most successful ski areas in the east.

I don't think it's all that calculating. Lake Placid already has a following, have the infrastructure. So any advertising will result in direct increase in visit.

Do the same advertising for Gore, it won't result in direct visitation increase due to the lack of comparable infrastructure. It takes a coordinated effort to improve both infrastructure AND advertising. That, maybe what the "train wreck" agency is incapable of.

Reality being, Gore is a good mountain in its own right. But it's by no means unique. Not like MRG.

I think its location is unfortunately its Achilles's heel. Gore is not big enough to act as an "anchor". Without other mountains to form a "cluster", it alone just won't cut it. That's my opinion.

Granted, probably the locals don't want any dramatic increase. A little more, but not a whole lot more...?

 

[JimG.]

NYS public dollars funded Burnt Ridge HSQ (6000ft long/1432vert) in 2008 and it should serve more than a small subset of skiers. Adding another trail or 2 on Burnt Ridge would allow more people to use a wonderful lift. Gore is not a private area where ownership can decide to make a 'glade' pod like Burnt Ridge.

The real issue with Burnt Ridge is the low elevation. Without snowmaking, this area only opens well into the season. Having the lift serve basically 2 trails, Echo, a race trail and Sagamore (besides the connectors) is absurd. The terrain would easily support at least another low blue trail so more people can enjoy the pod.

Harvey linked to a trip report from 2015.
http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Mountain-NY-2-2-15-Mid-Week-Pow-Magic-tp4054066.html
If you read the trip report from Feb 2, 2015, you will notice that this was Harvey's first trip of the season into the Burnt Ridge Glades. How is it a Gore regular like Harvey has not visited Burnt Ridge glades until Feb 2nd? The answer of course is that, during many years, there is not enough natural snow for the glades to open. Gore also seems to have Burnt Ridge as a low priority snowmaking area. That means that for much of the early to mid season, there is an expensive HSQ not being used.
Brilliant!!

There are plans to add a trail or 2 and the plans existed before the HSQ was installed in 2008. Here we are, 11 years later and the trails still don't exist. This is just par for the course at Gore.

Yeah Gore is best mid-Feb through March, although last season (which is not the norm) they had a great start and good November variety.

I admit I'm selfish regarding proposed BR trails and it sounds like maybe it will be a while before those trails actually exist. Perhaps similar to the proposed refurbishing of Highmount/Belleayre. Whatever the case I'll have to enjoy that area more now and it's a great motivator for me to get there more next season.

I do find it funny how many NJ skiers fret about NYS spending public funds on ski areas. I pay NYS taxes and frankly feel these ski area expenditures are the best return I'll ever get.