Limited day ticket sales at all Vail Resorts this year

[Harvey]

their whole business model is to eliminate day ticket sales.

 

[2Planker]

Boyne said nothin'
Just coincidental that the Boyne VP was at the BW Club, golfing for the day and happened to run into the same dude he interviewed the day before.

We're seeing the same group of seasoned, well qualified MWV ski industry veteran's all leaving Vail and taking positions at the indy ski hills.

BW just grabbed 3 WC patrollers w/ more than 100 years experience between them.
King Pine did the same w/ AT patrollers. MUCH Easier job, better pay by +$5/hr

 

[Dickc]

View attachment 54698

According to Vail's plan, and the above graph, the ticket limit will only affect 8 % of all their ticket sales. It will hit the most casual of skier who goes maybe once a year. It will turn them the off FOREVER on skiing, right when we should be GROWING the sport.

Edit to add VAIL SUCKS!!!!

 

[thetrailboss]

According to Vail's plan, and the above graph, the ticket limit will only affect 8 % of all their ticket sales. It will hit the most casual of skier who goes maybe once a year. It will turn them the off FOREVER on skiing, right when we should be GROWING the sport.

Edit to add VAIL SUCKS!!!!

Right. And as I have asked--is Vail and Alterra just giving up on growing the sport and are just grabbing whatever $$$ they can get now because they know that skiing is dying and will not exist due to climate change?

 

[deadheadskier]

Vail isn't about growing the sport's participation, it's about selling more epic passes.

"I'm sorry sir, you cannot spend $175 to ski here today. But for $600, you can ski most any day you want all season. What a bargain eh? We'll even sign you up to a lifetime auto-renewal so you never have to worry about buying again. Only takes 90 minutes on hold to cancel. Sorry, can't do that online. Oh and by the way, just bring three friends with you or you have to pay $40 to park."

Truly the very best stewards for the skiing industry. Epic!

 

[Harvey]

giving up on growing the sport

^^ Assumes that it was once a goal?

 

[drjeff]

^^ Assumes that it was once a goal?

Guessing that every ski area GM and/or mega pass company owner WANTS to grow the sport. Whether or not you agree with the pathway that they are choosing to attempt to do that is an entirely different topic open for debate.

Since, as we often tend to forget here on AZ, while we are certainly passionate, dedicated skiers/riders here, our numbers make up the vast MINORITY of all skiers/riders in the country. And also we may forget that in someways "growing" the sport may actually mean getting that skier/rider who used to ski/ride say 3-5 days a year into a situation where they may now ski/ride 8 - 10 days a year, with the hope that they may have a friend or 2 join them, and maybe even try the sport for the 1st time.

If you really want to get into the growth potential, and you haven't listened to the Storm Skiing Podcast released a month or so ago with Joe Hession of Big Snow, now that's someone who certainly has growth of the sport, and often into "non skiing/riding areas" demographics targeted, and is worth a listen as his industry start and story as well as his vision for where it can go in the next decade or so is quite interesting and shows how sometimes you need to combine passion for the sport with the ability to think outside the tradional box so as to not limit ways in which future advances and growth might just occur

 

[deadheadskier]

Attempts at market monopolization are never an effort to grow any industry.

Put the Koolaide down Jeff.

 

[drjeff]

Attempts at market monopolization are never an effort to grow any industry.

Put the Koolaide down Jeff.

Feel free to stay inside of your box all you want DHS, and we can agree to disagree on what growth of the sport MAY entail.

And please do note that I never have said that I agree with some of the proposals about growth put forth (there definitely is a strong streak of a skiing traditionalist in me from having participated and loved this sport for almost 45 years now), I just often can deliniate the difference between a emotions based reaction/decision and a business leadership philosophy choice that is looking to evolve the sport as things likely change in the coming years. And yes, working in the field that I do for 25 years now, has given me the perspective that while the same basics of what I do are still there, how I do them has certainly changed, and it seems like there is some BIG change in things every 5 to 7 yrs or so, so I guess that I have learned that if the fundamentals behind why new pathways are chosen to head down have some decent basis, that once you get past the fear that something new often brings out in folks, that you may very welll see that those fears mainly in your own head, and never materialized remotely to the extent that you feared, and that more often than not things got better and easier after

Heck, even if you consider the sale of a pass (and that's just any type of pass from a single area pass to the biggest of the mega passes) that has evolved over the last 25 years or so, from something that almost never went on sale before Labor Day, to somehting now where probably the majority of them sold for the next season are done before Labor Day now. Things change and evolve over time. Not all decisons will ultimately prove to be the correct decision, however not being open to change ultimately may be just as bad, if not worse than a choice made that doesn't quite go as planned, which then can be pivoted off of if need be

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm the one inside a box? Lol. Okay. I'd argue that you have the most one sided view on Vail out of anyone on this forum. That's why people continuously joke that you must be on their payroll.

Again attempted monopolies are not designed to grow industries. They're designed to consolidate revenue to one entity at the expense of others.

You think Vail cares that little community hills like Whaleback survive? No! They want to steal their customers.

 

[tumbler]

I don't think they care if WC and AT survive. Drive the customer to Stowe, Mt Snow.

I do get where DJ is coming from as a vested real estate owner at an Epic area, you need to drink some of the Kool Aid.

 

[machski]

I don't think they care if WC and AT survive. Drive the customer to Stowe, Mt Snow.

I do get where DJ is coming from as a vested real estate owner at an Epic area, you need to drink some of the Kool Aid.

I seem to recall the first EPIC billboard leaving Boston on I-93 last winter only mentioned their VT resorts.

 

[Smellytele]

Do they really care if you ski more days? They only care how many season passes they sell.

 

[thetrailboss]

Guessing that every ski area GM and/or mega pass company owner WANTS to grow the sport. Whether or not you agree with the pathway that they are choosing to attempt to do that is an entirely different topic open for debate.

My point was that both Epic and Ikon areas have all but scrapped affordable learn to ski/ride programs for newbies. It's all about the pass.

 

[chuckstah]

I seem to recall the first EPIC billboard leaving Boston on I-93 last winter only mentioned their VT resorts.

They seem to think they have 5 Northeast resorts in this job ad. Sunapee in NH made the cut, guess they really don't know the three other NH properties exist.

 

[thetrailboss]

They seem to think they have 5 Northeast resorts in this job ad. Sunapee in NH made the cut, guess they really don't know the three other NH properties exist.

That clearly explains what has happened. Vail DID NOT realize that when they bought Peaks the deal included Attitash, Wildcat, and Crotched. Only now are they realizing that yes they OWN these places too.

 

[IceEidolon]

I would bet that just like Vail in most seasons ends up making an announcement in early March that they plan on extending the season (weather permitting) and extra X number of weeks over a planned closing date, that if they get a GOOD weather window, and have the staff in place, that some of those resorts with say Mid December and later opening dates, could go early. Their marketing machine is fairly predictable in ways like that, even if at other times it certainly is very spartan and calculated at what it puts out there for public consumption

Many of them certainly have shown in the past that they have the snowmaking firepower to do so if mother nature is feeling cooperative

They've also gotten skunked a couple times when they didn't go early and later ended up being after their scheduled date. Great windows are one thing, but early season stockpiles in acceptable weather can make a huge difference too - and Corporate has said no before.

 

[drjeff]

They've also gotten skunked a couple times when they didn't go early and later ended up being after their scheduled date. Great windows are one thing, but early season stockpiles in acceptable weather can make a huge difference too - and Corporate has said no before.

Totally agree.

The hesitancy to pull the trigger and fire up in a good window say 2 weeks ahead of a planned opening day certainly has been the wrong call by some in the past. Not easy to try and figure out what the weather will be over a 7 to 14 day stretch, especially early season when we have all seen what a week out modeled as a GOOD cold weather window and/or snow event end up never materializing! If everyone had the equivalent firepower, staff, and budget that say Killington has for Superstar for the World cup, it would be an easier call to make to go for it during every window early season and not worry nearly as much about the costs of melting

 

[thetrailboss]

You know the more I think about this the more I see this as Vail's way of "wagging the dog" with Wall Street. "Gee, business is so hot folks that we JUST HAVE to sell less tickets? We're just THAT awesome!"

This is especially the case considering that the three year outlook financially looks like there is a HUGE increase in their expenses. So they want to placate the investors and get more money.

A well-played PR move.

 

[Cobbold]

You know the more I think about this the more I see this as Vail's way of "wagging the dog" with Wall Street. "Gee, business is so hot folks that we JUST HAVE to sell less tickets? We're just THAT awesome!"

This is especially the case considering that the three year outlook financially looks like there is a HUGE increase in their expenses. So they want to placate the investors and get more money.

A well-played PR move.

What are talking you about, in regards to the huge increase in vails expenses?