Magic Mountain

[riverc0il]

...but can anyone envision Magic as a skier owned cooperative like MRG ?

A lot closer to the Northeast's skier base that MRG.

magic may be a lot closer to part of northeast's skiers base, but it is the same distance from metro boston and further from many points in VT, NH, and ME. i could not envision another MRG like coop rising up out of new england. if i was going to buy a share (and i eventually would like to), at a coop ski area, it would definitely be MRG only. i love magic, but magic doesn't compare to what MRG is.

 

[thetrailboss]

boss, slamming another forum isn't exactly civil discourse. things got out of hand on SJ because a slew of new posters, likely some trolls and a few idiots mixed in, got out of hand. this thread would quickly go the same way under similar circumstances unless mods stepped in. the train wreck on SJ was not due to the regular posters.

You obviously did not read my post.

I want to commend folks for a great conversation on Magic. :beer: Some good points, memories, and observations and no :flame: fights that have recently occurred in other forums, who, regrettably, have had to pull the plug on Magic threads because of a few "bad apples" with an agenda. This thread has a lot of substance, polite discussion, and great info that some of us in the NELSAP room desired to read.

This level of civility speaks to the quality of the folks in here (and this is certainly not to say that NELSAP is not civil...it's just that they've had a hard time with trolls). I cringed when I initially saw this thread, thinking it may lead to :uzi: but it has been very substantive thanks to you all. Awesome. :beer:

I will again state that I was in no way bashing NELSAP. I am sorry if some people got that impression, but that was not my expressed nor my implied intent and it should not be read as such.

 

[riverc0il]

my comment may have been harsh, but despite your lack of intent, i think the mere association lays implict connection and comparison. i recognize it wasn't your intent, but no need to compare AZ'ers, we all know quality folks and discussion are the AZ standard.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Magic, as a cooperative, is an interesting idea. I think there are a number of people that would support it. Not to be negative, but here's what I see standing in the way:

1: Operating costs: MRG is in the snow belt. They can operate with very little snowmaking and the members are satisfied with that. It helps keep costs down. Magic needs snowmaking to be open and the costs are higher.

2. MRG had stable ownership that was passionate about seeing the area be a "going concern", staying open and preserving the ski experience. Magic's ownership is a complicated situation that does not lend itself to a transition to a coop. The current owners seem willing to sell, but I doubt they'd sell it at a discount and provide financing to allow a transition to coop ownership.

I'd love to see the place continue to operate and strike a balance between preserving the terrain and providing amenities that would bring in a broader customer base (and keep them coming back.)

 

[loafer89]

As I stated before, I have only been there twice, but snowmaking and the budget to use it seemed like the only problem with the area. The base lodge was fine for me, I am looking to ski and have a simple breakfast/lunch, not admire the baselodge. Magic is alot like Ski Plattekill facilities wise, both are bare boned but provide the basic needs of the visitior and should stay that way.

Can Magic operate the snowmaking system as it exisits now on all of the trails that it services, or does it need to be overhauled?

A beginner lift, if completed would be a help for the area. I do not know if that was finished since I visited in January 2005?

Just my .02

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

You obviously did not read my post.



I will again state that I was in no way bashing NELSAP. I am sorry if some people got that impression, but that was not my expressed nor my implied intent and it should not be read as such.

I don't see how anyone could take it as bashing NELSAP. You clearly stated it was a couple of trolls.

 

[nelsapbm]

Boss-no offense taken by your post. Thankfully those trolls didnt make their way over here!

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

As I stated before, I have only been there twice, but snowmaking and the budget to use it seemed like the only problem with the area. The base lodge was fine for me, I am looking to ski and have a simple breakfast/lunch, not admire the baselodge. Magic is alot like Ski Plattekill facilities wise, both are bare boned but provide the basic needs of the visitior and should stay that way.

Can Magic operate the snowmaking system as it exisits now on all of the trails that it services, or does it need to be overhauled?

A beginner lift, if completed would be a help for the area. I do not know if that was finished since I visited in January 2005?

Just my .02

Personnaly, I don;t spend much time in ANY base lodge. I don't need much. To make it more acceptable to the general skiing public, basic maintainance and janitorial duties needs to get done on some kind of regular basis.

Magic has snowmaking pipes on about 70% of the trails. They did add quite a few guns this season, but many of them are Areco Fan guns which require a lot of juice (480V, I believe) to run. At this point, they do not have power in place (other than just above the base) to runs these beasts.)

A bigger issue is the water/Act 250 permitting. Lots of rumours were flying about increasing the ponds. I'm out of the loop at this point. I don't know what the status is.

Several of the trails that don't have snowmaking have issues that would require substancial change for snowmaking to go in place. Redline, for example, is so narrow, you'd be coating the lift and dumping a lot of snow in the woods. Widen it, and it really wouldn't have the same character. As it stands, you can't get a groomer on it. Even a winch cat couldn;t handle the ledges. Master could have snowmaking on it, athough again, with the boulders and the stair step drops at the bottom, it's not groomable. It could be graded to be groomable, it wouldn;t ski the same, but it could be open more.

The Blue/Phoenix chair is still not complete. This is supposed to run from the base to Mid mountainjust below Sunshine Corner. The location of this lift has received a lot of critisism. Many call it a "Lift to nowhere", arguing that a shorter chair at the base of Wizard would be a better beginner lift. I don't know that I'd call the Blue lift a beginner lift, but it would certainly be less intimidating for novices than the summit.

 

[snobababunny]

The Blue/Phoenix chair is still not complete. This is supposed to run from the base to Mid mountainjust below Sunshine Corner. The location of this lift has received a lot of critisism. Many call it a "Lift to nowhere", arguing that a shorter chair at the base of Wizard would be a better beginner lift. I don't know that I'd call the Blue lift a beginner lift, but it would certainly be less intimidating for novices than the summit.

The blue lift will be a good step up from the tow rope. The red chair is incredibly tough for beginners to get off. I would have loved to see a lift over near the bottom of Wizard like it used to be just because I think it's out of the way of the speed racers coming down the hill while people are trying to learn. I heard that they couldn't put it back over there because of the zoning with the condos, but I'm not sure if that's true.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Actually, that location was considered, although it's hard to say how seriously. One of the minority shareholder was hot on the idea of running it even a little higher, perhaps up onto the bottom of Talisman.

I think that location (at the original length) would make for a better beginner lift than the Blue lift. The Blue lift is really an Intermediate lift (when it's done...)